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Deep 10nl: OP in MW Pot

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Deep 10nl: OP in MW Pot - Thu Oct 24, 2013, 07:19 AM
(#1)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Stats:

Player3 ( $14.54 USD ) - VPIP: 83, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 2.6, Hands: 29
Player4 ( $3.66 USD ) - VPIP: 66, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.4, Hands: 32
Player5 ( $11.26 USD ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 14, 3B: 17, AF: 5.0, Hands: 21
Player6 ( $24.72 USD ) - VPIP: 35, PFR: 19, 3B: 10, AF: 1.0, Hands: 37



Seems like a pretty standard cbet/fold but just checking.
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 07:24 AM
(#2)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
I would call his shove if BB folded . I would worry about BB a lot and would fold .
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 10:55 AM
(#3)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
I am calling $6.5 on $22 pot here, a bit more if BB decides to shove, the odds seems way too good, if one of theme was actually deep enough then yes its an easy fold.

EDIT: also bb seems the most loose of all, so his range might not be as strong.

Last edited by CaRLoS_DZ87; Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 11:00 AM..
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 11:08 AM
(#4)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
how do you think Carlos What hands will shove BB there?
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 11:27 AM
(#5)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shichi-77 View Post
how do you think Carlos What hands will shove BB there?
I think I didn't explain myself well, if we want go with our hand then we have to shove as well. I was thinking about how much it cost us, 6.5 into a 22 pot, and if BB comes along, 9,77 into a pretty big pot.

About what hands could BB have, 88-10, QQ, sometimes AA. I think he would have raised a set most of the times in that flop.
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 11:59 AM
(#6)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Thanks.I understood.
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 12:52 PM
(#7)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I think it's close but judging by both villain's stats I think we can justify a call there.
If we are against a set we are crushed, but I think we can put a lot of flush draws, medium overpairs to their range, which make this more of a call.
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 12:21 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi birdayy and all,

I think cbet/fold is not good here tbh, not standard at all. If we were deeper stacked with V5 then bet/fold gets better the deeper we are, but because of our preflop action we have a low spr with both villains, 1.5 with V5 and 2 with V3. With this big a pot (low spr) V5 can be shoving many worse hands than ours, including 88-TT, 66, A7, 87s, 76s and other draws. V3 can be calling our c-bet with a similar range. Bottom line, any time we have a very low SPR, a strong overpair to the board, and many worse hands the villain can reasonably be stacking in, we should call (or reshove in this case).

The preflop play I also don't really like much, making a big 3b squeeze with JJ oop . I think it's more standard to flat on this depth of money here, and that's what I prefer. The thing I really don't like about 3-betting big here is if we get 4b I don't really know what to do. We probably have to fold playing a bit deeper here, but I don't like it. Nor do I like getting it in with JJ. And if we get called, we get a lot of weird post flop spots where the spr is lower dictating we should commit but at the same time we don't feel great about getting it in anyway.


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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 01:47 AM
(#9)
GayLooser's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 62
BronzeStar
imo, i think they can on 457 have 45,57,47,68,36 pretty often in 4way pot which u r dead to....
then they can haz A6, flush draws ... which u r only 60% good .... so it would be easy fold at 10NL, in higher stakes u probably could be stacking there, but in 10NL u ll be never good here
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 04:01 AM
(#10)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Hmmm ok.

I ended up folding (as you probably guessed). If i remember correctly V3 had 99 and V4 had two pair.

Isn't flatting JJ awkward because we'll have to check/fold most flops with an over? We basically turn it into 22, which it definitely isn't. If we had something like JTs then obviously a call is better, but a strong and vulnerable hand like JJ I feel would be better if we can isolate with a squeeze.

I think it's going to be awkward either way (3b or flat) OOP.
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 09:25 AM
(#11)
GayLooser's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 62
BronzeStar
wtf yes, JJ is bad on 457 in 4way, nuff said

Last edited by Fadyen; Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:04 AM.. Reason: inappropriate expression
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 09:53 AM
(#12)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
Isn't flatting JJ awkward because we'll have to check/fold most flops with an over? We basically turn it into 22, which it definitely isn't.
While we will have to check/fold many flops with an over in a 4 way pot, we are certainly not turning it into 22... that implies strict set mining, which is what we'd be doing with 22, but are not with JJ. An unimproved 22 always faces multiple overs, and doesn't beat medium pocket pairs.

JJ is strong and vulnerable pre, but again, considering the depth of money, it's unclear how best to proceed if we get 4b, and also how to best proceed vs. callers. The same question you pose about flatting can be asked about the large 3b and getting called... do we c-bet into 1 overcard? Check/fold 2 overs? Bloating the pot and playing deeper stacked out of position makes these tough questions to answer, and we've made the stakes higher in the process. Although when we 3b and get called we should be thinking already about what our commitment plan is since we'll have a very low stack to pot ratio. While overcard boards are unclear imo, a 7 hi board is not one we should be folding on with this big a pot already built and many worse hands they can now be willing to stack off because of it. At least that's how I see it.


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