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Donk Bet: Good Spot?

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Donk Bet: Good Spot? - Sat Oct 26, 2013, 05:53 AM
(#1)
carlk73's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 82


With top pair, decent kicker is leading here a good spot? If he cbets I'd call, but a lot of turn cards would be tricky for me oop so happy to take down pot on flop if he folds. I would fold to a raise.
The turn card is good, so I value bet again.

Should I value bet river? Not sure what worse would call me.

Only 8 hands on opponent.
 
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Sat Oct 26, 2013, 10:25 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
I like donking these boards with hands like TP.

It takes the initiative and allows us to extract value from any draws and/or speculative pairs like underpairs etc.

I think there are a lot of missed draws OTR (which some players will donk with) so I think we should bet for value and fold if raised.

Check/calling has it's merits if the villain is bluff happy but given we have 8 hands I think we should bet for value.
 
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Sun Oct 27, 2013, 03:58 AM
(#3)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
I still dont take donk lines regulary but I agree with the first part of birdays comment. But the second part: "I think there are a lot of missed draws OTR (which some players will donk with) so I think we should bet for value" does not make sense, vs missed draws only bluffcatching make sense OTR.

But not to sure if bluffcatching or valuebetting is better OTR here, he can have some worse hands that can call you like TJ,T8,T7 and maybe even 98,97 if he calls you down wide.

He can also have a lot of drawing hands that missed the river, but if he is a decent reg I dont think he bluffes his draws that have a K or A that often here, since it really looks like he is trying to steal the pot if he bets the River here. He might bet draws with low high cards though to get you off a draw with a higher highcard.

So not to sure after all, but I would probably bet half pot OTR for the reasons stated.
 
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Sun Oct 27, 2013, 08:18 AM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by almigthybald View Post
But the second part: "I think there are a lot of missed draws OTR (which some players will donk with) so I think we should bet for value" does not make sense, vs missed draws only bluffcatching make sense OTR.
I mean that players donk the flop with draws.

Since the draw missed OTR we'd bluff these hands because we have no SDV.

That means that we'd play a missed draw the same way as TP (betting the river).
 
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Sun Oct 27, 2013, 09:10 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi carl,

I think the line is fine, we'll have to fold to a raise taking this line as the range that raises us will be comprised of better made hands and draws that have a lot of equity, so over all equity is bad when he raises.

Agree with birdayy, we should value bet again on the river since all draws bricked, and the villain may well put us on a busted draw and bluff catch worse 1 pair hands.


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Sun Oct 27, 2013, 10:17 PM
(#6)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
I think the play is a good one, though it is not something I would do every time in this situation. Just make sure to have a plan. I actually like the check on the river as it gives villain a chance to bluff worse hands when you show weakness after all draws have missed, but it is largely read specific on the villain. Betting river may be the best play if you don't have any reason to expect villain to bluff you.
 
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Sun Oct 27, 2013, 11:31 PM
(#7)
brettnz's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 377
Im value (almost a protection bet ) betting river here,if you checked to me here ,Im villian, Im making a bet,as Im attacking your weakness (your checking),im assuming you are know on a broken flush draw ect.if you reraise me I fold .
From your position Im betting river for same reasons hoping you have a busted flush or strght draw . if you call I still think Im ahead (top pair good kicker),if not I lose,but if you reraise ,with no history to say your bluffing Im folding as Im assuming you put me on at least top pair and have me beat. But I thnk you played hand correct untill you checked river ,even then dont think it was bad play just a safer line,only problem being if villian then bets after your river check.Lot of assuming in poker eh
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Last edited by brettnz; Sun Oct 27, 2013 at 11:37 PM.. Reason: added to
 
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Mon Oct 28, 2013, 09:35 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
If villain bets when we check river, we are probably going to call since all draws missed. The problem with this is that we can't be sure how many draws villain has in his range here, since he just called us on the flop and turn and didn't raise to semi-bluff. It's a bit of a parlay, that he A) flops a draw, B) chooses to play flop and turn passively facing our bets, and C) chooses to bluff river when checked to rather than give up.

The 2nd problem with checking the river, in addition to the parlay above being our main source of profit from this line, is that his calling has indicated a non-monster that has showdown value. It is somewhat likely that most hands in this category that are worse than ours will check down, while most better will value bet us. Which means if our plan is to check/call, we need to have a fair bit of bluffs somehow that he can show up with to be profitable, making up for the times we pay off a slightly better hand.

To birdayys point, players sometimes take our line (donk flop, lead turn) with draws themselves, so it's reasonable for the villain to be calling us with showdown value hands. When all the draws miss, most (maybe all) of those same hands that would have simply checked down and shown down the river, will now call a river bet to bluff catch us in hopes we had one of those draws.

I think in the case of this hand we do better if we bet the river rather than check, since I expect villain to have more showdown value hands than busted draws that he'll now bluff and not give up.


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Mon Oct 28, 2013, 10:36 AM
(#9)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Overbetting could also be kinda cool on the river because his range looks pretty weak and he could level himself into a call with a middling strength hand if we polarise our range.
 

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