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B vs B action

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B vs B action - Mon Oct 28, 2013, 04:10 AM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

Slightly confused from two hands that I recently posted - giving different advice. Now I undestand that both flatting and 3betting while in the blinds csan both be optimal play, but given the two hands that I posted I was wondering if someone could explain that (in the two situations below) and the advice that is given why that is the potentially optimal play.

1. http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...nl-FR-Zoom-ATs

and

2. http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...nl-FR-Zoom-KJo



With the first situation (1), according to the adivce given, the potential optimal play is to 3bet.


Now with situation (2), according to the advice given, the potential optimal play is to flat call.


As I have said, I understand that both can be optimal given what you know, but I am unsure why in the above situations.

Can anyone see why, i.e. is it because of the strength of the hands, or is it because of the reads that I have on opponents, etc? I am not sure.


Thanks for all your help,


Pullin1988

Last edited by pullin1988; Mon Oct 28, 2013 at 05:21 AM..
 
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Mon Oct 28, 2013, 04:54 AM
(#2)
TweedleBeetl's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,146
I think it is the other way round.
 
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Mon Oct 28, 2013, 05:21 AM
(#3)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers TweedleBeet!. I have now amended.

Pullin
 
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Mon Oct 28, 2013, 07:07 AM
(#4)
PinoyWonder's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 141
hey pullin for both examples it's the strength of your hand that we're really considering vs the opponents range...

for the ATs hand a 3bet lets us define the opponents range like you said in your post if they 4bet we ditch the hand safely assuming QQ+/AK and move on. if they flat we have the initiative and can lead out on quite a few flops if it gets checked to us.

with the KJo hand we don't have a hand strong enough to 3bet as the only hands that are calling our 3 bet will be hands that dominate us Axs/KQ/pp and this also leaves us in a weird spot when we flop top pair Medium Kicker in a 3 bet pot which is never a comfortable position to be in.
 
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Mon Oct 28, 2013, 07:15 AM
(#5)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers Pinoy,

Thanks for the advice, that has sorted out my confusion.

Pullin
 
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Tue Oct 29, 2013, 11:17 AM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
If we 3bet ATs and a player calls us OOP dont they have a much stronger range anyway like TT+ AQs+. Maybe im a nit OOP but i might call even tighter than that and sometimes looser. I have flatted the KJo in BB as well and always run into either 3 barrels and i fold or i call 2 streets and see a better kicker.
 
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Tue Oct 29, 2013, 01:57 PM
(#7)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi mike,

that's what I wasn't sure about.

Cheers,

Pullin
 

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