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pokerschoolonline home game 45 players sit & go buy in 0.60$ all in with Q4s SB

pokerschoolonline home game 45 players sit & go buy in 0.60$ all in with Q4s SB - Mon Nov 04, 2013, 05:57 PM
sapines1001's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 67
starting chips: 3000 regular tourney.
31 players remaining and avg stack is 4500. go all in with Q4s SB.
is it a correct decision? if no so what should i do instead?
thank you.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.65 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Hero (SB) (t6,931)
BB (t15,684)
UTG (t1,330)
MP1 (t2,752)
MP2 (t8,538)
CO (t5,019)
Button (t1,145)

Hero's M: 14.59

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, 4
5 folds, Hero raises to t6,906 (All-In), BB calls t6,706

Flop: (t13,987) 10, 10, 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t13,987) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t13,987) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t13,987

Results below:
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Mon Nov 04, 2013, 06:56 PM
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Hi sapines.

Very,very bad play by you here.

We're 35BB deep here and shove our stack in to open. I don't care what we have,from AA all the way down to 32o,this is never going to be an optimal line to take. Reason being is that we're shoving 35BB to try and take down a pot of 475 chips. This is a classic value-owned spot...by massively over-betting here we have set up a scenario where we're only getting called by hands that beat us. And with a hand like Q4s it's even worse because even were the player in the BB susceptible to overvaluing any Ax type hands (or even Kx and almost all Qx hands for that matter)and thus capable of calling light themselves...a lot of the hands they call with are BEATING US.

If the hand comes to us with an unopened pot and we want to try and steal,then just make a standard raise (2. to 3x depending on depth of stacks) here. This gives us options depending on the villain's response...they fold,we scoop...they raise,we fold...they call,well we could flop big and try value betting them for as much as possible,or we could miss and go check/fold if the flop hits their likely calling range,OR the flop could miss both us and their likely calling range and we can try to take the pot away with a c-bet.

Lots of ways to go in this scenario,when we shove,however,only two things can happen...either they fold and we scoop or they call and we hope to be best at showdown. And we have ZERO control on the outcome in either of those instances,poker is a game where you only want to get yourself into a spot where you have zero control over the outcome when you don't really have any better options left,or when it's likely the most potentially profitable play for you to make. This spot was neither.
Tue Nov 05, 2013, 10:16 AM
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Once you go out of a tournament, there's no way back in. It's a massively -EV play to try and steal such a relatively small amount of blinds and antes and put your tournament life at risk with a poor hand.

As Moxie says, even with AA this is a poor play as you are not allowing yourself to extract the most value from your hand.
Wed Nov 06, 2013, 11:06 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi sapines,

These guys are right. While we will certainly get some better hands than Q high to fold (I would think), the risk/reward ratio is terrible risking a 35bb stack to win 2.5bb's. If the villain is a good steal target we can assume much less risk by opening for a standard raise, for the same reward.

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