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5NL Zoom Flopping the nuts - Bet sizing river for value?

5NL Zoom Flopping the nuts - Bet sizing river for value? - Wed Nov 06, 2013, 11:33 AM
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Hey guys, I just want to know what should my bet sizing be on the river when I know I have the absolute best hand. Obviously I got max value but was it the correct play majority of the time?

Ohh and I hate KK!!! Preflop no way im going to 4bet seeing that action with just KK cause ive lost the most with this hand to AA and AK. so I just wanted to see a cheap flop and go from there.

Wed Nov 06, 2013, 12:11 PM
maDe91's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 47
Hey Killeraxa,

I'd say if villains are both unknown 4bet getting it in is fine imo. When you cold call you sort of turn your hand face up as being something like TT-QQ and the most likely outcome is that you play a bloated pot OOP against 2 other people which is not ideal.

As for post flop I think you played it fine. Just flatting the Cbet to try and get the 3rd person along seems fine as the stack to pot ratios are already really low which means you don't have to auto-raise the Cbet to get stacks inside eventually. As for the river sizing I think it's fine for NL5 since villain most likely has a TT-QQ type hand and will have a hard time folding. Against more capable opponents I think it's not gonna work out too well though since you'll show up with at least 1 K 90% of the time there, and there are not really any missed draws that you could have.
Wed Nov 06, 2013, 12:43 PM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,502
(Head Trainer)
Hi Killeraxa,

Preflop I think either flatting or 4-betting are ok. Personally I would lean towards 4-betting here as V6's 3b sizing is very small, meaning if you flat V5 will be able to profitably come along with 100% of his open range and take a shot at your stack. Also, while we don't have stats/notes on V6, we are not readless at this point in the hand. V6 is starting with less than a full stack, and is using a 3b sizing that is too small for this depth of money... it looks like a common tournament sizing tbh. So I would guess he's a recreational player that is either primarily a tourney player or just doesn't really know what he's doing (or both). Which means we will likely get more action than we should for a cold 4-bet out of position. I would 4b to about .89c here.

Post flop is fine. I like check/calling to not scare off V5. Once V5 folds the flop however, I think we should consider leading the turn small. There's only 2.25 in the pot and V6 has 2.83 behind, if he fires the 2nd barrel it works out but if he doesn't and checks back the turn, overbet shoving the river isn't terribly attractive. It works against this guy because, as stated above, he doesn't know what he's doing. As you meet more sophisticated opponents, you won't be getting called for stacks here as your line pretty much turns your hand face up as a monster (won't put you on KK obv, but 77 or AK, same thing when they hold QQ or AA). Even against the weaker player, leading the turn is more likly to get stacks by spreading it out over two streets... you can bet like .80c here, it looks like maybe a feeler bet or cheap steal, which may induce raising mistakes and which big pairs won't ever fold to. If he calls, then there will be 3.85 in the middle and only $2 behind, a much more attractive river offer to him.

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Wed Nov 06, 2013, 02:53 PM
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Ahh the small bet might make him call another on the river as he figures its a cheap showdown, cool When I was on the river I took a long time on the clock and then shoved hoping he was thinking, "If this guy had a king why would he be taking so long to make a move,why shove all in like that?" SUCKER!!!!

Thanks for the evaluation
Wed Nov 06, 2013, 06:21 PM
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
I would probably of played it similar to you post flop killeraxa and then find myself with the same problem of how can I get the most from this without it looking like I have a king.
Think I'll try leading with a 1/3 pot bet myself if in a similar position.
Thanks for the advice and for posting the hand

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