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Kindly help.What am I missing here?

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Kindly help.What am I missing here? - Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:56 AM
(#1)
BlueNavy811h's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 13
Hello,

I am a new player who is trying to build a bankroll from scratch.
So I started with the Bankroll building promotion and got 4 USD then I went on some 2 NL Cash games Zoom.
Recently I started reading guides on how to beat micros and like everyone says : "fold alot, play only premium hands and push really hard with strong hands".
Fine, I tried it.
And in the last two days all I do is fold non premium hands and call or raise good hands.
But here's the problem: while I keep holding, my bankrolls evaporates due to the BB and SB.
Oh and if I am lucky to get a pair of aces or kings and try to raise, I keep getting folded.
Just 15 mins ago after another session of folding I went from 2 to 1,54 USD.

So my questions are:
1)Is the Zoom option for 2NL a good thing or a bad thing?Should I just play 9 man 2NL without ZOOM?
2)Should I loosen up a bit and call the 0.06 raise with below par pairs such as QJ,KQ,KJ,QJ,pocket pairs, A10, A9?
3) Is there a better way of building the bankroll, like for example SnG?

Thank you.
 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:27 AM
(#2)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
Hi BlueNavy,

It sounds to me like you are playing too tight. If you play ONLY premium hands then it becomes very easy for others to notice what you are doing and just fold so you get no value. Your range of hands should be wider than premiums and get wider as your position gets later. Now it depends on how comfortable you are as to how wide you play and some other factors such as if it's full ring or 6-max.

Have you had a look at our Courses? Here's a link to our Cash Game Course. There you should find some good info that might help you, especially the pre-flop hand selection section.

As for Zoom or no Zoom, that's kind of up to you. It took me a while to get used to it but now I love it so it's kind of a personal preference thing.

Good luck!



Tournament of Champions Winner 2013

Bracelet Winner

 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:19 AM
(#3)
sporkT's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 16
Hi, I just want to share my experience with 2 NL zoom full ring. I only ever played 1 session of 509 hands. I was up $1.29. I played very very tight ... except when it was folded to me in late position. Then I raised it up to steal the blinds. I was allowed to steal the 3 cents most of the time and that more than made up for the times someone played back at me. This could be very bad advice. If someone notices they could exploit this, but it worked for me.

When it was folded to me I raised:

SB: 93%
BTN: 88%
CO: 67%
 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:43 AM
(#4)
BlueNavy811h's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 13
Thank you for the answer Fayden.

Yes I did passed the cash course.
The main issue is I only got 4USD on my bankroll and trying to grow it.
So I can only do premium hands, rest are to much of a risk.
Do you think if I tried SnG 1USD ones it would be faster?
 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:09 PM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
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Hi BlueNavy811h!

To follow proper bankroll management, for SNG's or MTT's, a player needs to have 100 buy-ins in their bankroll before playing a given level of game. For $1 SNG's, I wouldn't play them unless my bankroll is over $100.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:31 PM
(#6)
BlueNavy811h's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 13
Thank you for the answer John.

I was wondering if it was easier to build a bankroll than a Cash Game.
Ideally yeah 100 buy-ins for SnG and 20 for Cash.
But if trying to build a bankroll, which one would be more doable for a beginner?
Thank you.
 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:58 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
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I started my bankroll from scratch (never deposited). The tourneys that I started out with were the .25 cent ($100 added) MTT... it's GREAT VALUE and the dime ($50 added) turbo MTT. For SNG's I played the quarter 45 and 90 player ones.

Look into the quarter $100 added MTT.. it's a great way to start a bankroll. Also, the astronomer freerolls, where you can win round 2 tickets into a tourney with cash prizes.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 02:36 PM
(#8)
Ron112355's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 478
You need to stop focusing on bankroll, focus on learning and becoming a better player and the bankroll will follow,,,Sounds a bit to me like you want the money without doing the work..


"A weak player may be a nit but a nit is not necessarily a weak player"
 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:47 PM
(#9)
mute07's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 75
Hi BlueNavy811h,

I personally play 2NL cash games but I'm making the transition to start playing 5NL, recently I started playing a little bit of Zoom due to the fact that I can see way many hands in less time. If you decide to continue playing cash games I can recommend you read ArtySmokesPS blog, he has there what he calls The ABC of 2NL and it's one of the best blogs I've read about these micro limits. Can't really begin to explain how much I've improved by just applying the things Arty says there.

Also, it's ok to take good care of your BR but playing with "scare money" isn't a safe bet either. Remember that poker is a long term game, you can't expect you BR to grow from one day to another. It takes hard work and a little bit of luck. The PokerSchool gives you everything you need to help you improve and everyone in this community are more than willing to help out if you need (me included). Hope that I was of some help.

See ya around and gl on the tables!

mute07
 
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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:20 PM
(#10)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,425
avoid hypers/turbos and zoom (if your a beginner) is my advice except for freerolls and possibly the 10c turbos for 360 man

PSO from time to time offer some great promotions that may give you a chance to build a bankroll...or at least gain some playing experience

So many i forget to name but ones such as survey freerolls/micro million ticket chances/red spade...the list is endless I reckon approx about once a month they offer a good deal could even be more....so just come to school everyday visit the hand analysis forums and live trainings especially The langoliers (Daves)

take notes on players and use proper bankroll management

some peopel learn betetr from videos than books but if you liek books get 1 god poekr book..im unsure which is best though

try to stick to one game you are profitable at and stick to that before venturing into all the other types of games on offer (books and peopel may say different to this )

thats all i can think of for now but the key thing is freerolls i feel.i dont mean a freeroll where you play 5 hours and have a chance of winning 1 cent though just so im clear

good luck

rolo
 
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Thu Nov 14, 2013, 04:22 AM
(#11)
BlueNavy811h's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 13
Thank you for all your advice and criticism.
@Ron112355: I am not trying to not do the work, was just surprised that they say play premiums only and yet you lose alot without playing any hands. Was looking for another type of NLHE that is more doable for a bankroll builder.
@Mute07ank you for the link to the ArtySmokePS Blod. I will read the info carefully.
@Rolo834: You're perfectly right about the Zoom. Because there if I got like AQo and OOP I would fold it almost always, whereas at a regular 2NL table I would at least try to play it and raise.
 
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Thu Nov 14, 2013, 05:29 AM
(#12)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
IMO as a 5NL zoom player =) I advise you not to play zoom with 4 dollars, try regular full ring. It’s MUCH easier.

Zoom has very few passive callers compared to regular tables and many of those who seem to be fishes and call too much are mostly bad LAGs, an antithesis to fish. This lead to the main point, at the zoom tables you hardly ever know who is the fish – you know – the one who makes you the easiest profit. Without data it’s not uncommon to think that a nit is a fish, when he just calls your 3 barrels with TPTK+

Second main point is that it is advisable to start regular, because you learn the meaning of nit, fish, lag etc very fast in when you play against them. They are not names anymore in the text books but VILLAINS, real blood.

Your definitions are not quite there I feel, especially for zoom.

fold a lot = correct, but only when you don’t have a hand, zoom people love to be agro. Just keep open mind and the pot small if you have good enough hand, if you can’t do that fold. This should actually say : "keep out of the trouble by folding the hands you are not sure. Why fight over 3bb when money comes easier next time"

play only premium hands = is wrong, it should say 1. play only strong hands relatively to your position and action 2. Against tight players it’s ok to open quite wide because they like to fold, just remember to fold when villain is saying he has a monster – they usually have one then. 3. when you play button even the tight range is so wide you don’t believe that to be true.

push really hard with strong = correct

Arty’s blog is really good read!

Here are opening theory from Arty:
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/post/?id=45329

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blo...arly-Positions

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blo...ater-Positions


1) Bad thing, zoom makes you learn fast ABC game (whitch is good), but what you want to learn first is basics of exploitable game.
2) Mostly never call Ax hands, even when suited, you need to KNOW when to do that (up to you to read when), it's ok to call SUITED connectors, just don't give too much value when you make a pair, and this is not needed at all to make profit at NL2, so it's optional, and also needs some reading (google rule of twenty). You should call pairs quite often, there is great video about it by Dave.
3) Don't know. But NL2 regular tables should be easy enough. PsychoVas, a player here, made a large bank roll by playing free tournaments out of zero.
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...ime-in-a-Vault

Last edited by braveslice; Thu Nov 14, 2013 at 06:16 AM..
 
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Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:08 AM
(#13)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi BlueNavy811h!

I've played 50K hands on 2NL Zoom full ring and 6-max. It is beatable and I play super tight. It is a winning approach. There is a lot of variance in poker. So, having two losing sessions may not mean much as far as chosing the best strategy. You might find a recent blog of mine useful in helping you sort out which hands to play.
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blo...with-this-hand

John's tourney suggestions are excellent as well. If you want to play cash though, I suggest sticking to regular (non-zoom) tables for the time being. Regular tables go slower which gives you time to think. You have the same players most of the session which allows you to take notes and build reads. Stick with this until the fundamentals are solidly in place. Moreover, don't expect to double your bankroll everytime you play a few hands. It takes time, especially in the beginning. Be patient and work on the fundamentals. If you are not yet winning at 2NL, you will lose your bankroll faster playing Zoom.

Finally, there a ton of excellent resourses here: videos, hand analysis, live training and blogs like Arty's. Put it to good use and keep asking questions

GL and have fun at the tablese!

Roland GTX
 
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Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:56 AM
(#14)
mytton's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 181
Hi,

Please don't try to build your bankroll by playing 2NL with a $4 bankroll. It's like putting your money on the edge of a cliff and hoping the wind doesn't blow the wrong way. Sooner or later a gust of bad luck will sweep away your tiny bankroll.

You will hear different figures mentioned as a minimum bankroll for 2NL but $40 is probably a reasonable starting point. If you can afford to, you can deposit this, or alternatively do as I and others here have done, and build up to that by playing as many freerolls as you can find.

I recommend taking a look at the PSO Skill League games, as they are free, reward tight patient play, and offer a very nice boost to the micro bankroll at the end of the month if you can make it onto the leaderboard, which is really not too hard if you play a simple tight disciplined style.

Don't stop studying and learning, and good luck.
 
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Sun Dec 01, 2013, 06:16 PM
(#15)
blanks57's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
I can tell u even 20BI is too low for cash BR. I play 2nl & it's nothing to loose 6-10 full stacks in a couple sessions just to variance. xflixx recommends at least 40 BI for level u play & I would agree. Christmas is coming maybe someone will give u a gift card instead of present you'll need $80 to play nl2. GL merryxmas
 
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Sun Dec 01, 2013, 06:22 PM
(#16)
blanks57's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 6
start with fixed limit holdem. u'll need to relearn evrything u learned from NL. It's really where every new player should start anyway.
 
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Sun Dec 01, 2013, 06:24 PM
(#17)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blanks57 View Post
start with fixed limit holdem. u'll need to relearn evrything u learned from NL. It's really where every new player should start anyway.
I can second that. Playing limit is where I started.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 06:31 PM
(#18)
DropmePOCKET's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by blanks57 View Post
start with fixed limit holdem. u'll need to relearn evrything u learned from NL. It's really where every new player should start anyway.
Most Definetly
 

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