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My tricky hands in Zoom 2NL

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My tricky hands in Zoom 2NL - Sat Nov 16, 2013, 11:12 AM
(#1)
simonrdr's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 437
So I decided to post my tricky hands of last night in order to know if I made the right decisions. So here is the first one :



So we get raised in MP by a random Zoom villain (only 8 hands on the villain) and we make the call in position with AQo.
Now I want to know if I missed value by not raising on the flop and the turn, and if I should have bet the river. On the river my thought was that if I bet, I was only gonna be called by hands that beat me (boats) so I was better off checking and going to showdown.
 
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Sat Nov 16, 2013, 11:17 AM
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simonrdr's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 437
Hand number 2 :



So this time a MP villain raises us 3x. We have 29 hands on the villain and he is playing 10/7. I don't like flatting OOP with KK so we 3 bet and he calls. Very good looking flop, we c-bet and he makes the call. Now that A was pretty scary on the turn. We check, villain bets and we fold.
Should I have bet that turn and fold to a raise instead? That Ace will have hit his range quite often...
 
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Sat Nov 16, 2013, 11:22 AM
(#3)
simonrdr's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 437
And the last one for last night's session :



A very loose villain (23/19 in 114 hands) open limps in MP, we limp (replaying the hands makes me think I should have raised), the small blind raises (33/25 but in only 25 hands), and the original limper makes the call and so do we. We flop a set, the original raiser bets, MP calls. We raise and everyone folds.
Did I miss value by raising on the flop? I don't like slowplaing a set when 2 cards to a flush are on the board. I didn't want to flat call and give both villain a cheap turn card.
 
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Sat Nov 16, 2013, 11:29 AM
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birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonrdr View Post
On the river my thought was that if I bet, I was only gonna be called by hands that beat me (boats) so I was better off checking and going to showdown.
This thought process isn't correct. You should b/f for value. Rest of the hand is wp.

In H2 i'd check/call turn and fold to a river shove. You can also consider betting with the intention of giving up if called or raised.

In H3 you should be isolating the limper IP with a hand as strong as 99. Apart from that raising the flop (although transparent) is fine.
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 04:50 AM
(#5)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
This thought process isn't correct. You should b/f for value. Rest of the hand is wp.

In H2 i'd check/call turn and fold to a river shove. You can also consider betting with the intention of giving up if called or raised.

In H3 you should be isolating the limper IP with a hand as strong as 99. Apart from that raising the flop (although transparent) is fine.
This.
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 09:27 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonrdr View Post
So I decided to post my tricky hands of last night in order to know if I made the right decisions. So here is the first one :



So we get raised in MP by a random Zoom villain (only 8 hands on the villain) and we make the call in position with AQo.
Now I want to know if I missed value by not raising on the flop and the turn, and if I should have bet the river. On the river my thought was that if I bet, I was only gonna be called by hands that beat me (boats) so I was better off checking and going to showdown.
Hi Simon,

Please only post 1 hand per thread, so it's easy to discuss and follow discussions on hands. I'll look at these separately.

So in this hand, I don't have a problem with your line at all, riasing the flop or turn is probably not great since it will tend to fold out worse hands and only get action from better hands. Not totally true, we'll probably get action from KQ for instance, but without reads flat calling both streets is fine imo. I would however bet the river when checked to. The fact that he checks on the end increases the chances our AQ is the best hand, and we should be able to get paid off for something with a bet here. I'm a thin value bettor in general, but I don't think this is too thin tbh.

He will call you with all worse hands that have showdown value if he thinks your bluffing. Including but not limited to KQ, QJ, QT, JJ, TT, 99. He never has a full house, or he would have bet the river, so we really are only worried he's check/calling KK or AA, but with no reads we are strong enough to value bet when checked to imo.


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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 09:30 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonrdr View Post
Hand number 2 :



So this time a MP villain raises us 3x. We have 29 hands on the villain and he is playing 10/7. I don't like flatting OOP with KK so we 3 bet and he calls. Very good looking flop, we c-bet and he makes the call. Now that A was pretty scary on the turn. We check, villain bets and we fold.
Should I have bet that turn and fold to a raise instead? That Ace will have hit his range quite often...
In this hand I do prefer bet/folding the turn slightly, although being as conservative as he seems he may not bluff the ace when checked to, which if true means you can comfortably check/fold the turn, and when he checks the turn behind us, you can value bet the river small to get paid off by TT-QQ.


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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 09:34 PM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonrdr View Post
And the last one for last night's session :



A very loose villain (23/19 in 114 hands) open limps in MP, we limp (replaying the hands makes me think I should have raised), the small blind raises (33/25 but in only 25 hands), and the original limper makes the call and so do we. We flop a set, the original raiser bets, MP calls. We raise and everyone folds.
Did I miss value by raising on the flop? I don't like slowplaing a set when 2 cards to a flush are on the board. I didn't want to flat call and give both villain a cheap turn card.
First thing is we absolutely should raise preflop to isolate the limper in position with 99. On the flop I am always raising this. The desire is to get stacks in against a king, as well as charge anyone on a draw. There's only .26c in the pot and a very small c-bet of .06c and a call... slow playing just doesn't grow the pot enough here. Although the weak action doesn't indicate any strength, so your raise sizing may be a little heavy handed vs. weak holdings, but I think we should raise something... .20-.22c seems about right to me.


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