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suggestion - Sun Nov 17, 2013, 07:07 AM
(#1)
lisbonbhoys's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 24
BronzeStar
i have deliberately waited until this morning before posting this because i didnt want it to seem like it was just another rant about a hideous beat last nite , so first of all let me tell u why iam making what might seem a crazy suggestion to stop the league .
I have played this league now for approx 4 weeks and it has become evident to me that rather than acheive its objectives of teaching players to play poker for no cost it does the exact opposite , Iam doing ok i suppose league position wise but the way i have played to acheive that is hardly improving my game it involves constantly using the clock and folding ( often premium hands ) so that when i finally join the lottery for the pot if i lose i will at least not lose to many league points , the word lottery may seem harsh to some but seriously how else can u describe it even all the way up and into the final 10% of the field u have multiple players pushing and being called in several places withwhat at best can only be described as optomistic hole cards , its why i often fold big hands including aces because while they might seem and indeed are great hole cards they seldom hold up when u have a table were 6/7 players have decided to push with a very wide range of hands from 3 8 to 7 j to 9 k etc etc and in that scenario i suppose the math ( tho i aint that good with math so this part is a guess lol ) will tell u the odds in ur favor lessen each time another player decides to join the pot .
I hate to not have at least an attempt at a solution for this but i really dont know that there is one were so many players dont want to take it seriously as its a freeroll and so it has led me to this final conclussion .
Pokerstars generously speand many many thousands of dollars on this league however given the way the league is played and that it is simply little more than a raffle prize , in actual fact it could even be argued that it is worse than that in that it doesnt so much helpto improve ur game but in reality if u take from what u see in the league it worsens it and for that reason i believe they should cut their losses and cancel the league as it is failing in its intention to improve players poker skills , but before u think i have completely lost my mind in telling people to withdraw so many many thousands i would add that i think pokerstars should take that money and redeploy it in other areas that are more likely to achieve the aims that any school is about to impove the students knowledge in whatever type of school that is .
some examples might be
increase the amount of tickets u give away via quizzes etc , players will learn much much more playing in those tournaments than the league
maybe even have a league of sorts but make it by , invitation , perhaps after having taken the time to pass a quiz etc etc , tho i think if u were going to do this the most important thing would be to drastically reduce the feild as i feel with the current 10000 players that only increases the likelihood of raffle poker , iam sure there are many other ideas and much better ones also . the point iam trying to make is this , if it is really the intention of pokerstars to enhance the ability of players there must be better ways of acheiving that than the leagues , it is of course ur money but i do think as generous as it is there are much much better ways for pokerstars to spend it
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 08:48 AM
(#2)
slettuce's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 221
I'm just trying to be the "voice of reason" so please don't take this the wrong way.
You've been going on about the skill league and how it isn't working for you for over a month now.
You are clearly frustrated with this but continue posting about the same thing.
Moderators have closed previous threads on this issue.

After reading this new thread I thought I would voice my opinion.

I have seen your stats for previous years and according to those stats you are a very accomplished all round poker player, you played all the different versions and doing well in them.
These stats impressed me and this is why I'm posting my "2 cents" for what it is worth.

I've listed the latest games that you've cashed in ( just the type not any amounts).

04 Jun 13 Triple Stud
04 Jun 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
03 Jun 13 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo
03 Jun 13 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo
02 Jun 13 Triple Stud
01 Jun 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
31 May 13 Pot Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
31 May 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
30 May 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
29 May 13 Triple Stud
27 May 13 Triple Stud
20 May 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
20 May 13 Triple Stud
19 May 13 Triple Stud
17 May 13 Limit Badugi
15 May 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
15 May 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
15 May 13 Triple Stud
14 May 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
14 May 13 Triple Stud
14 May 13 Triple Stud
14 May 13 Pot Limit 5 Card Omaha Hi/Lo
11 May 13 Mixed PLH/PLO
10 May 13 Triple Stud
09 May 13 Triple Stud
09 May 13 Triple Stud
09 May 13 No Limit Hold'em
08 May 13 No Limit Omaha Hi/Lo
07 May 13 No Limit 5 Card Omaha Hi/Lo
07 May 13 Triple Stud
07 May 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
07 May 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
06 May 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
05 May 13 Pot Limit Badugi
05 May 13 Pot Limit 5 Card Omaha Hi/Lo
04 May 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
08 Apr 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
07 Apr 13 Pot Limit 5 Card Omaha
07 Apr 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
06 Apr 13 Pot Limit 5 Card Omaha
05 Apr 13 Limit Badugi
03 Apr 13 Triple Stud
03 Apr 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
02 Apr 13 Pot Limit Courchevel
02 Apr 13 Triple Stud
02 Apr 13 Pot Limit 5 Card Omaha
02 Apr 13 No Limit Courchevel Hi/Lo
28 Mar 13 Triple Stud
27 Mar 13 Mixed NLH/PLO
26 Mar 13 No Limit 5 Card Omaha Hi/Lo


OK, so from what I can see, NL Hold'em clearly isn't the game that worked for you or you just didn't play it or whatever the reason is............ it seems so clear to me.
The Open Skill League has 10 000 NL Hold'em players who are all freerolling, that's a lot of people.
You obviously have a lot of poker knowledge as can be seen from the above list of your latest cashes.
So with this knowledge and playing against 9999 opponents in a game that only features once on the list above (great result btw...well done), and these guys are going to risk and gamble with their stack in order to win big pots or they bust and move on to the next FREEROLL, leaving you sitting there just getting more and more frustrated - I just don't get it. Why you putting yourself through this ? (Rhetorical question).
Another thing that's "foreign" is the League format, so it isn't played like a real money once off MTT.

It's like you are a teacher and these kids are getting on your nerves. I say this with respect and it's how I am seeing this whole "skill league/lottery" or whatever else you called it.
You are a poker player so why play the lottery and expect to not only "cash" in this lottery once but consistantly for a full month.

It makes no sense and you are just torturing yourself by participating at a level that you are clearly to strong for.

If you really want to play NL Hold'em in a League format then the Premier League is an option, you would be playing against your peers but they also play like maniacs........it is NL Hold'em, it's a League and the result only comes at the end of 30 days.

Sorry for rambling, but I just had to voice my opinion.

Stop swimming against the tide and rather start crushing the mixed games like you used to.

If you insist on playing the League then play it on it's own terms-not yours, because nobody is going to change the format of it because of one person not agreeing with the way it is run and constantly posting complaints about it.

I'll leave it there as it just seems so clear and simple and you are just going to frustrate yourself to the point that you seem to be at right now.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Mixed games is your strongest asset, don't throw all that away by going to war against 9999 other freerollers in a war you really aren't interested in anyway. It's insane.

The End.

Peace.
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 10:34 AM
(#3)
lisbonbhoys's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 24
BronzeStar
far from being offended or insulted by ur post i in actual fact find it overpriase worthy and think u way over estimate my ability but thanks all the same , just one wee thing i would like to clear first and then il explain why iam posting on this issue , only 1 thread closed and it was to do with not the subject but the fact that both myself and another got a lil lost and forgot about the poker bit and had a go at each other which i appologise for . most importanly what iam trying to do is change things , i get thats unlikely but hey why not try , holdem is a game i really struggle with and i thought it might be a useful tool, clearly most who have played will understand its not , you are absolutely correct to say that 1 persons opinion will change nothing , my hope was that others would take it on , make suggestions and hey who know 1 becomes 2 and 2 becomes 3 u get the idea , pokerstars generously contribute many thousands of dollars to this event with the implied aim that as a school event it would improve and hone ur skills when u went and played real money hold em ,surely its not a bad thing to make a suggestion or two that might actually help in that direction and iam sure its not beyhond the many ppl here to come up with ideas that would make it more realistic . The alternative if u choose to play the league is one of 2 things , firstly run the clock down and fold everything taking as much time as u can to do so , that managed to get me into top 70 after the first half of the month , but u learn nothing or secondly and i dont mean this to be insulting or offensive to anyone as they are perfectly entitled to play as they see fit but for 5/ 6 players to be allin most hands with a range of the strangest lookin hole cards is little more than putting ur names in a hat and picking out the winner which is why i called it raffle poker , so yeh in summary while its unlikely for 1 person to affect change there is no chance of change unless someone says something , assuming of course that others would like change and the opportunity to play in a more realistic enviroment ,it might however be that ppl are quite content to continue with the way things are in whch case good luck to them i just cant see how that even gets close to what one might think the aims of a school would be .
let me finish by thankin u for ur input , i genuinely appreciate it
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:42 AM
(#4)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I've yoyo'd in and out of the Premier League a few times. TBH I hate playing in it but I also understand the value of it. At present I'm out but I think I could easily get back in if I put the effort in.

The easiest route to a PL spot is the Premier League Qualifiers. Going this route costs you $1.10 a game but the fields are usually weak and you're playing just a couple of hundred players and not 10,000. If you hit a high enough score then stop playing. There's no advantage to winning the Qualifier League, the real advantage is getting a spot in the Premier League.

If you have the bankroll then just give the Open Skill League a miss and go the PL Qualifier route.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 11:49 AM
(#5)
DrDonkin's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 874
I have i suggestion for you lisbonbhoys................


Use the enter button at the end of each paragraph, when there's no spaces in between each paragraph it makes it almost impossible read your long drawn out complaints about the donkey league.

And i agree with oval too the open league isn't the only route into the premier league
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 12:31 PM
(#6)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisbonbhoys View Post
i have deliberately waited until this morning before posting this because i didnt want it to seem like it was just another rant about a hideous beat last nite , so first of all let me tell u why iam making what might seem a crazy suggestion to stop the league .
I have a simple solution for you.

Do not register or play these games, Then you can stop worrying about how bad they are.

PSO runs a series each month of 40 cash and 40 Play money games which you could use instead as a learning tool.

Top price for the year is a $215 ticket to the Sunday million.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:30 PM
(#7)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
OK, I do see your viewpoint lisbonbhoys as this is my first full month playing the qualifier league also.

I hope and expect never to have to play it again. I am hovering around the 300 mark and even though I appreciate I still have some work to do I fully expect to achieve my goal, and that is just to qualify for the premier league.

What we shouldn't do is play the qualifiers and expect the games to play out like standard MTTs, indeed we need to accept this pretty early on in our 'PSO' league life. I feel I am adapting to this. Do not get me wrong, I hate and detest the style of 'poker' I am having to play to maximise my chances of achieving my target. I just hope that there may at least be a little more game play in the premier when promotion occurs, although I also accept there may be further adaptations required.

So to my point, and that is this format is unique and the game we play daily overall in this league is not poker as we know it. However I have to disagree with you when you say it teaches you nothing by playing, I feel very strongly it does.

For example, It teaches you arguably one of the most vital skills in poker, patience. You get taught the need to fold, fold, fold and the league reinforces your discipline to do so. We fold because we know unless we have an absolute beast in front of us then we have to fold to survive. One of my leaks I feel I had prior to visiting here was that I had a bad habit of trying to see too many flops with weak sc's or semi-sc's when not having a deep enough chipstack to accommodate this. Taking part in these league games I feel has helped me look at this and understand my leaks in this area more.

There are other areas I feel the league helps develop with the way the games play out. It makes you appreciate the values of taking good notes and keeping player notes and tags upto date. If you see terrible play in a game, don't get wound up but write some notes on the players involved so you can use that info in future hands. You are getting lots of free info in this regarding players ranges from various positions so use it.

One other point I can say about the league is it makes you focus on position. You know you can't make the kind of cute 2. bb raises you may make utg+1 in ordinary MTT's as you will certainly get 4 or 5 callers minimum and likely 3/4/5 bet too!

So for me even though I hate and detest the style of poker I have to play to get promoted to the premier, I do appreciate there are elements within this format which result in parts of my game play basically being stripped back to basics for me to analyse. To recap, for me it puts focus on my discipline, patience, note taking, reading hand ranges and positional play, to name just a few. I really believe it is helping us if we are just willing to look at things in a more open minded way.

We also need to take note that not everyone playing has an interest in the league, even if they are on the leader board. When possible I like to look up players positions on my table, and come to a conclusion that out of a 10,000 field chances are only 800-1200 reasonably serious league players will be playing. I regard reasonably serious as anyone in the top 1200-1400, say.

The obvious conclusion is that there are therefore 8,800-9,200 players in a full 10,000 man field who are basically playing for first, and at least a final table, as money for other placings so nominal. Hence the style of their play.

The only way to eliminate this in my eyes is to take the prize money out of each game. Do that and the 'freerollers' have nothing to play for and in turn that should increase the quality of play in the actual league.
 
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Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:38 PM
(#8)
wiltshireman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,569
(Moderator)
Hi all,
thanks for your posts on this. As you know im sure, Pokerschoolonline welcome ideas and suggestions and maybe you think it will be worth your while contacting ideas@mypokerschoolonline.com with your ideas on the league and indeed any other ideas you may wish to be given consideration.

Thanks again, and good luck on the tables.


Moderator

Last edited by Fadyen; Sun Nov 17, 2013 at 02:11 PM.. Reason: email typo
 

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