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50NL 6-Max: Reg stopping me from playing against Fish

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50NL 6-Max: Reg stopping me from playing against Fish - Sat Nov 23, 2013, 05:12 AM
(#1)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
I just played a 150 hand session on a 50NL table. There was a huge loose-passive fish who I kept trying to isolate. Every time the fish was in the bb, I was on the CO. However, there was an aggressive 50NL reg (supernova) on the btn who 3bet my open raises quite often. His stats were 16/12 with a 5.1% c-bet over 150 hands. He was was a snug multitabler and never got out of line, but he 3bet quite often against me in this spot.

I wanted to play as many hands as possible against the fish, but didn't want to keep raise-folding to the btn. Any suggestions on how to handle this situation?

I believe the reg knew I was playing a wide range against the fish. The fact that he also had position on me lead me to believe he was 3betting fairly light. Presumably, he was going to keep 3betting me all day as long as I was going to fold. Yet, calling his 3b oop with hands like A10s, KJo and QJs didn't sound good since I think the reg would be able to outplay me postflop. None of the hands really seemed candiditates for 4betting light either. I wanted to play the fish, not get into a leveling war against an aggressive supernova.

My solution was to leave the table.

Thanks!

Roland GTX
 
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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 06:25 AM
(#2)
nhynyx's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Just my opinion.

A player with 16/12/5.1 stats, isn't a player I would consider aggressive, in fact, I would label him as a nit. To be honest, I'm having trouble understanding how he could 3 bet you "quite often", yet only have a 3b of 5.1% over 150 hands.

Were you the only person at the table that he 3bet? Or to be more specific, exactly how many times did he 3bet your CO open from the btn? All I'm saying is when someone mentions an "agg reg" a 16/12/5.1 isn't the first thing that comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
I believe the reg knew I was playing a wide range against the fish. The fact that he also had position on me lead me to believe he was 3betting fairly light.
If you believe that he was 3betting light, you have two options (other than moving tables ofc) and that is to flat or 4bet.

If you don't do either of those than this will happen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
Presumably, he was going to keep 3betting me all day as long as I was going to fold.
When you see someone who folds a lot to 3bets, what do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
Yet, calling his 3b oop with hands like A10s, KJo and QJs didn't sound good since I think the reg would be able to outplay me postflop. None of the hands really seemed candiditates for 4betting light either.
If you think he's 3betting light, why is ATs not a good candidate for a light 4bet? If ATs isn't a good candidate for a light 4bet, what hand would be?
 
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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 07:23 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Yeah, all his 3bets were against me. I didnt have enough info to know if this was just a case of him picking up hands in those spots, or if he was taking advantage of the situation. I agree he was nitty over these hands, but he was TAG with the hands he played. I didn't see many showdowns with him except for a 5b all in preflop with KK which he ran into AA.

I didn't want to 4bet light at all until I knew more about his range. A10s for me creates a spot with serious reverse implied odds. Also, I am pretty new to 50NL. My main strategy at 50NL is to pick on fish and avoid unclear spots against regs.

Whether tightening my opening range or loosening my calling/4bet range, or just sticking to my main line is best I dont know
 
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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 07:52 AM
(#4)
figaroo2's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 14
I will three bet all day with any two cards against someone who folds to every three bet unless they have premium. You must play back often and 4 bet, you could of course just tighten up your opening range... As it happens moving table to avoid someone who is picking on you is perfectly good practice
 
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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 11:35 AM
(#5)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
It's a tough spot but if you think he could be even a bit light then some more 4-betting is in order I think. Takes a lot of guts but if you were the button player and were getting cute what would you hate to see? If it was me I'd hate to see the CO 4-bet shoving.. That's if he's doing it light but if it's that often I think he must be a fair amount.



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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 12:24 PM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Hi Roland,

That's why I play Zoom...lol
My question is, Why are you folding to a 3bet? Are you trying to isolate the fish with garbage hands? The reg probably saw the same thing as you and is trying to isolate the fish to himself. The thing is, even if you want to play as many hands against the fish, you're not the only one at the table, you still need a good hand.

Sure you are taught to pick the tables with lots of fish, play against the fish, but you still need good cards and there is a possibility that he's got good cards and when you add to that a reg who's kind of bullying you, you need to wait for the right moment to kick his.....

There's nothing wrong in calling is 3bet, sure you might lose some hands, just like you might win others. But I'm curious, if you fold to all his 3bet, does he win every hand against the fish? Have you seen some of his hands he's played? Have you taken notes on those hands?

The same applies when you're in the BB and you keep getting bullied by the SB or the BTN

Just my 2 cents
GL Roland
 
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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 01:38 PM
(#7)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
thx guys

Sandtrap, in the hands where I got 3b, the blinds (including the fish) folded. Thus, I was left with choosing to play a good player oop with speculative hands (A10s, KJo and QJs). These hands would have been easy enough to playing in position against the fish. They are strong enough to open with from the CO.

The reg didnt go to many showdowns, but was a pretty straight forward tight multitabler. The only hand he 3b other than the 3 against me was when he 5b ai pf with KK.

I didnt feel any of my hands merited 4betting light without having seen a showdown or two. Calling the 3b with these hands just felt a little spewy at the time.
 
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Sat Nov 23, 2013, 04:28 PM
(#8)
nhynyx's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
Yeah, all his 3bets were against me. I didnt have enough info to know if this was just a case of him picking up hands in those spots, or if he was taking advantage of the situation. I agree he was nitty over these hands, but he was TAG with the hands he played. I didn't see many showdowns with him except for a 5b all in preflop with KK which he ran into AA.

I didn't want to 4bet light at all until I knew more about his range. A10s for me creates a spot with serious reverse implied odds. Also, I am pretty new to 50NL. My main strategy at 50NL is to pick on fish and avoid unclear spots against regs.

Whether tightening my opening range or loosening my calling/4bet range, or just sticking to my main line is best I dont know
Being as tight as he is, he could have been picking up hands. In fact, that would be my initial reaction to someone who is playing that tight. However, I play against many tighter regs (like the one you played against 16/12/5), including tight passive regs (think 17/10/5) who 3b a TON btn vs co, or sb/bb vs btn opens. Having 3b by pos in your pop-ups is an absolute must, more specifically, btn resteal vs co steal (hm2 stat if you use it). Obviously, having fold to 4bet stats are pretty important as well.

This is where sample size and stats are really useful. The guy is a 16/12/5 over 150 hands. He is tight, and by all accounts, doesn't 3b very much, but is 3betting you in the same situation often (btn vs co open). Well, what's his btn resteal vs co steal? If it was 3/5 or 4/7, would it change your perspective at all? Yea he could be picking up hands and running hot but he could also be using his pos here. Sure, if we had 1500 hands and saw his btn resteal vs co steal was 6%, we can fold w/o a care in the world knowing he is rarely, if ever, bluffing here. But over 150 hands we just don't know, in any case, a 4b here w/ATs would be perfectly fine IMO.

I think calling oop with any of the hands you listed is just a disaster. We're oop, we don't really know what his range is and yea, it's gross. So why not take the ATs and 4bet it? On a side note, if you KNEW he was 3betting light with Ax hands for example, then calling w/ATs could actually be good because you dominate a large portion of his range, and are dominated by very few hands.

Lets assume you open for 3x, and he 3b to 9bb. You can 4b here to 19-20bb, and easily fold to a shove. If you don't do something, you become a target and will get 3b by observant regs constantly. I would much rather 4b/fold then to call oop. Once I have a bit of history then I can start widening my calling range and adjust my 4b range. Leaving is ofc a viable option and one that I take often, unless there is a reason to stay at the table. If I choose to stay then I tighten up a bit and pick my 4b spots better.

This is where a good hud, and a good understanding of stats is very useful.

@fayden - There is no reason to 4b shove here. All you do is force him to play perfect. He folds his air and calls with his good hands. If you always 4b shove, air/value, I would tend to think that would be an incredibly high variance way to approach the situation. In this spot, a small 4b accomplishes the same thing, that being he folds his air, shoves his value hands. It does create a diff dynamic in that he can now flat, or 5b shove his air, but that's all part of the 3/4/5 bet game.
 

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