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Fold boat?!

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Fold boat?! - Sun Nov 24, 2013, 04:55 AM
(#1)
lyoung911's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 14
I played this hand in a 5nl FR Zoom session, not using a hud so no reads on the villain.

I feel like I should have raised the turn, but I put the villain on a Q, meaning they had only very few outs to beat me, though I probably could have gotten value from that shoving the turn. I was also aware of the possibility of villain having QT limping pre, but then again that is so rare with two Q's and 3 T's out that I don't think that should really matter much. That said, as I put the villain on a Q, I didn't see any hand that would shove the river that did not have me beat. It was still a very tough fold though. Any thoughts?
 
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Sun Nov 24, 2013, 07:42 AM
(#2)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
I don't know if I could make that fold myself during that time

- villain limped. He could have any hand. A Q, T, 6, pairs, etc.
- bet/3-bet on the turn may be a good idea for value to make him pay for his draws and Q set.
- i think fold on the river is ok becuase I can't think of any other hands he would play that way.
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 05:45 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi lyoung911

I too would prefer 3betting the turn. The villain could have been slowplaying an overpair and been afraid of the potetial str and flush draws. Or, he could have picked up more outs on the turn himself. Either way, bet now while he either believes he is ahead, or beleives he can improve on the river. If yoiu wait until the river he might not put more money in the pot. In general, any time I think I have the nuts, I prefer to bet/raise for value at 5NL.

As played, it does look like he has a Q and is betting for value. You will need to win 33% of the time to make calling profitable. If you think he has a Q, then folding is best. Without a read on the villain, I would assume his bet is for value.

GL and have fun at the tables!

Roland GTX
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:11 AM
(#4)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyoung911 View Post
I played this hand in a 5nl FR Zoom session, not using a hud so no reads on the villain.
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I feel like I should have raised the turn, but I put the villain on a Q (read or guess?), meaning they had only very few outs to beat me, though I probably could have gotten value from that shoving the turn. I was also aware of the possibility of villain having QT limping pre (read or guess?), but then again that is so rare with two Q's and 3 T's out that I don't think that should really matter much. That said, as I put the villain on a Q, I didn't see any hand that would shove the river that did not have me beat. It was still a very tough fold though. Any thoughts?
How long were you at the table? How long had the villain been there? Were you multi-tabling?

If you truly had no reads, you were just guessing. Well maybe a semi-educated guess based on a generic player, but a guess none the less. HUDs are not necessary for reads, and are a bit dangerous when relied on too heavily.

The best use of the HUD programs is to review YOUR game. That information transforms your game, the HUD just helps your memory.
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:33 AM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,505
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
How long were you at the table? How long had the villain been there?
1 hand (it was zoom). Joe is right though, "no HUD" is not a valid excuse for no reads... no history with a player is. Even at zoom, you can take notes on players when you see them do things that might provide insight. Even in this hand, with no history, we are still not readless... preflop villain limps in EP and calls a 4x raise from out of position, so I would immediately label him a weak player until I see otherwise. Which makes his post flop line that much stronger.

I agree with the fold guys. His line screams Q, so I would 3-bet him on the turn for value but as played, I'm comfortable folding. The only hand we really beat here are weird bluffs (this is almost never a bluffing line) and flushes... and if by some chance he were aggressively semi-bluffing a flush draw on the turn (which I doubt), this is probably the one flush river card he doesn't shove for fear we have the Q.


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