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nl10, zoom: 89s, multiway raised pot, call or fold w/ set on turn

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10NL, zoom: 89s, multiway raised pot, call or fold w/ set on turn - Sun Nov 24, 2013, 07:14 AM
(#1)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135



- no previous read on the villain
- don't use HUD
- played zoom


PreFlop
-called w/ suited connectors on multiway pot

Flop
-chk/call w/ my top pair on wet board

Turn
-hit the set. chk/raise to protect hand.

Problem:
How should I deal with the 3bet push on the turn?
Fold or Call?

Last edited by kalahwang; Sun Nov 24, 2013 at 07:21 AM..
 
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Sun Nov 24, 2013, 09:02 AM
(#2)
Ashalina77's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 88
Hiya! I'm still learning myself and I probably wouldn't have done what I'm about to say in your situation either but I'll take a shot at reading it. (and learn from it myself if I'm right lol)

* Preflop a call is good imo. Though I have learned that when you make a call with suited connectors, you have to know what you want to flop. For suited connectors you are looking for a STR or FL draw. Flopping top pair makes it harder, but doesn't mean the pot should be lost to you yet.

* The villain was checked to and raises 50% in a multiway. He is giving a cheap price for half the table to flop a flush, so chances are big that he has a FL draw himself. To get some information out of him, I'd suggest reraising on the flop, to see how good your top pair is. He might as well be bluffing because it was checked to him.

* If the villain jams after the flop RR, it's an easy fold. It would represent something like an overpair or a set. (losing your bet will save you money in the longrun)
*If the villain calls your RR, I'd set him on a FL draw, so eventhough I made a boardset on the turn, it's a semi-easy fold because it's the wrong 9 lol. I'd still bet the turn, but fold to a RR
* If the villain folds.. You got him to stop bluffing or he realises the price for the flush is too high.

Also, if he had top pair, just like you.. It's more likely he had a better kicker than you. Even if he plays pretty loose, it's more likely for him to have T9, J9, Q9, K9, A9 than 79, worse than a 7 kicker I doubt he would have played.

Now thats only how this very difficult situation could have been avoided. So to answer in short to your question.. It would nearly break my heart, but I'd have to fold.

Hope I made some sense and I didn't get it completely wrong myself,

<3
Ash
 
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Sun Nov 24, 2013, 09:50 AM
(#3)
Ashalina77's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 88
Lol I need to rethink the "fold" decission I made when I posted this comment. I'm currently watching
Session-2-Commitment-DecisionsBy Uber trainer TheLangolier. I haven't gotten through it all yet, but it's pretty clear that as soon as you've reraised the turn, you are potcommitted. With 10 outs to the (most likely) nuts, I think a call is warranted. I don't know the exact odds but folding at this point is not an option anymore.

I recommend watching all the training videos for sure!

My nr 1 thing to work on.. is stop being a scaredycat! lol

<3 Ash
 
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Sun Nov 24, 2013, 10:12 AM
(#4)
rzek's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
i dont think he would bet on the flop with a flush draw in multiway, maybe a flopped set 44 77 it also looks like a stupid preflop play with QQ+ i don't know this is really weird anyway i would call its like 3$ to call for 13$ in pot
 
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Sun Nov 24, 2013, 11:28 AM
(#5)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
Hi Ash.

All inputs are welcome of course. That is why we are all here, to learn from everyone :-)

- I think chk/raising on the flop is overplaying my weak top pair on a very wet board and on a multiway pot. So I don't think that is such a good idea.



Hi Rzek,
Now I'm thinking if check/raising the Turn was a good idea as well since of course it would commit me to the pot.
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:06 AM
(#6)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi guys!

Here are my thoughts:

Preflop call okay. Like Ashalina says, becareful not to over play TP.
I think when the villain bets the flop with two players left to act and they are not the PFR their hand will look strong. Sets, overpairs, and draws. Folding to the flop bet is too tight, so calling is okay. x/r flop is a bad idea because we are bloating the pot with just a weak TP and we value own ourselves. I think the same is true about the turn. How does our hand look to the villain when we x/c the flop? It looks like we either have a TP hand or draw and the turn improves both yet our opponent continues to bet. I would be very careful here as villains range is looking stronger.
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:11 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi all,

I unknowingly analyzed the same hand, as the OP accidentally linked this hand in his K9s thread, so I figured I'd copy my reply here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier
preflop and flop are fine. I'm not so sure about check/raising the turn however, I don't think our relative hand strength is strong enough for this action. Villain has shown a fair bit of strength here imo betting into a 4 way pot on the flop, getting called, and betting again on a turn card that *should* be scary. The range of hands that would make sense for both these flop and turn actions are 44,77,9x, and clubs. And that's a problem for us as we are behind all of that range except specifically 9x with a worse kicker than an 8, which there probably isn't much of (96s maybe if he's crazy loose?)

His turn bet sizing isn't very scary, and we certainly have equity regardless of his holding, so check and call is fine here. I think if the river is a blank we should be check/folding to a 3rd barrel a lot, and if the river goes check/check we'll usually win.


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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 09:40 AM
(#8)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
thanks for all the inputs.

sorry for the mistake Lango. This is my first time to post on the forum with these hand replays. Might have been trying how to post these hands.

here's how it went.

 

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