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5NL zoom, K9s BU call, decision on completed draw on River

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5NL zoom, K9s BU call, decision on completed draw on River - Sun Nov 24, 2013, 09:13 PM
(#1)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135


- zoom
- no read on villain
- no hud


Preflop:
- flat call w/ K9s on steal from CO (did not raise due to lack of read on villain)


Flop:
- villain did not cbet, check/call only. I play bet/fold my top pair medium kicker to protect from draws on a wet board.

Turn
- Turn card did not complete draw but gave another flush draw. I play bet/fold to protect hand.

River
- Gave me a two pair but card completed the draws (flush and straight draws) and now villain leads around 2/3 pot

Question:

Do I have enough showdown value to call? or fold my hand?

Last edited by kalahwang; Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 09:42 AM.. Reason: wrong hand posted
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 12:25 PM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi kala,

Wrong hand, this one's not K9s on the button.

In the posted hand, preflop and flop are fine. I'm not so sure about check/raising the turn however, I don't think our relative hand strength is strong enough for this action. Villain has shown a fair bit of strength here imo betting into a 4 way pot on the flop, getting called, and betting again on a turn card that *should* be scary. The range of hands that would make sense for both these flop and turn actions are 44,77,9x, and clubs. And that's a problem for us as we are behind all of that range except specifically 9x with a worse kicker than an 8, which there probably isn't much of (96s maybe if he's crazy loose?)

His turn bet sizing isn't very scary, and we certainly have equity regardless of his holding, so check and call is fine here. I think if the river is a blank we should be check/folding to a 3rd barrel a lot, and if the river goes check/check we'll usually win.

EDIT: OP changed the hand history in this thread, this original analysis was for the 89s hand which is also posted HERE


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Last edited by TheLangolier; Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 11:10 AM..
 
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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 09:42 AM
(#3)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
sorry.. corrected the hand posted.

still learning the hand replayer a bit.
 
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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:07 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi again,

No worries on getting the replayer sorted.

So in this hand I am leaning towards defending our button with a 3B vs his open, simply because it's hard to play this hand for a call not having initiative post flop. For instance, if the villain is barreling this board, I guess we are just calling down, but how many streets? Do we call 3 barrels unimproved? What about a flop texture like J97? It's close, but 3-betting probably makes our life a bit easier.

Post flop I like betting, villain check/calling both streets instead of c-betting usually indicates a hand with showdown value that is not strong. If they had strength they'd bet, if they had air they'd bet. He could take this line with KJ or KT but I'd guess he bets those more often, so it looks a lot like Qx.. AQ/QJ/QT/Q9.

On the river, I would call. While all the draws got there, most flopped draws would c-bet (I would expect, readless). I also see little value in raising, as if we're wrong it will cost us the rest of our stack basically, and if we're right, he is probably betting planning to fold to a raise with all draws completing, so we won't get paid off when ahead. About the only candidate worse hand to pay off a raise here is Q9, so it's way too think imo. I call.


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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 09:05 PM
(#5)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Hi again,
So in this hand I am leaning towards defending our button with a 3B vs his open, simply because it's hard to play this hand for a call not having initiative post flop. For instance, if the villain is barreling this board, I guess we are just calling down, but how many streets? Do we call 3 barrels unimproved? What about a flop texture like J97? It's close, but 3-betting probably makes our life a bit easier.

Thanks Lango.

Considering if I 3bet preflop, playing the same cards.

Should I play passively on the turn and just check behind and fold on the river?

Or should I fire a double barrel and play a call/fold on the river depending on his bet size?

Last edited by kalahwang; Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 02:22 AM..
 
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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 10:22 PM
(#6)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
It's usually easier to barrel the turn rather than check and face a bet on the river.

If we bet the turn we can check the back the river because it's unlikely the opponent will lead out.
 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 02:22 AM
(#7)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
thanks bird. sounds like a good advice.

Maybe if it was a dry board up to the turn, I could play for pot control and check it down on the turn and call on the river to justify my bluff induce on the turn.
 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 03:35 AM
(#8)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
That's also an option but players tend not to be aggressive enough at 5nl to warrant that kind of line.
 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 06:48 AM
(#9)
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
thanks bro. darn, this game is hard.

Just when I thought I'm learning a lot, but am still having a difficult time beating 5nl.
 

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