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bankroll builder - Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:06 AM
(#1)
vlzvl's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Hi,
just read about this excellent bonus
I never did a deposit on pokerstars (played about 3,4 play games, still learning and play-money only) and just about started my serious poker education in the school here (poker basics passed, cash games started)
What is the procedure for the bankroll, is still available?

thank you for taking a moment for us
 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:09 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Welcome to PokerSchoolOnline!


Be sure to read THIS just to be sure of exactly what's on offer with the Bankroll Builder promotion.


>>click here<< for a complete overview of what PSO has to offer.

We will advise within 24 hours as to whether or not you will be eligible for this promotion. Please check back this time tomorrow!


Thank you for being a member of www.pokerschoolonline.com and best of luck to you at the tables!


John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Nov 25, 2013, 06:25 PM
(#3)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi vlzvl,

You are eligible for the Bankroll Builder promotion, good job!
NB: Bookmark this page so that you'll find it easily in the future

First Step

Watch the following video and pay special attention to the tips on retrieving and saving your hand history from PokerStars. This will be important for the rest of your promotional journey.



After wacthing this please play some PLAY MONEY FULL-RING (9-Handed) tables at PokerStars and using the Hand Replayer post a hand here in this thread that you have questions about.

Here is a video on how to use the hand replayer.



Then when you have that done please have a go at the Poker Basics Course and pass the quiz at the end of the course.
So you have 3 steps to do to begin with and when you have all 3 done we will award you with your first bonus.

1) Watch the 'Getting Started' video
2) Post a 'PLAY MONEY' hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer
3) Pass the Poker Basic course.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 steps completed.

Best of Luck!


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 06:35 PM
(#4)
vlzvl's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Hi,
i completed the 3 steps
Below is a hand that belongs in the value-bet vs opponents-draw realm.

In short, my thought was something like that:
  • I got a nice hand, AJs but i was in the BB so i'll raise limpers and call 1,2 raises but certainly not re-raise because of my bad position. I would not re-raise for another reason too; it would not matter, most players would just call, so i wanted to keep the pot small.
  • There was an All-in in between (as usual) but this one builds the pot so i had to call 32 to get 132, which is about 25% pot odds, quite good for my hand, so i called
  • The flop came and i had [top pair / good kicker] so i raised about 75% (a hotkey setting). Perhaps it was better to go for 100% raise to kick-out draw chasers? I didnt bet this way because the table was loose and were many players in the flop, so i chose a normal value bet.
  • On turn i hit trips aces The last active player checked to me, so i bet again 75% (i should go all-in, since this left me with excuses of chips, efficiently pot-commited, but its a hotkey). I knew i had probably the best hand, since the only player i feared of checked to me after 2 aces in turn. I assumed he didnt had the other ace. And if he does i have a J as kicker, so i got myself pot-commited.
  • After my last value-bet on turn, the last active player fold his hand. I now was up against 2 frequent all-in-ers, i didn't had any fear about them anymore since i hit a Full house at the river.



I know that when you have a good hand and the board shows flush/str8 draws (in this game, 2 clubs and AK) you need to bet pot-sized amounts to chase-off opponents.
In this game i didn't bet that way, i bet my usual 75% value bet because the table was already loose and was afraid pot commitments from some unknown player with a full/deep stack.
On a tight, thinking game i certainly would make a pot-sized bet.
So, i do my betting well regarding the board and an unknown opponent? Or perhaps i should tried to keep the pot small?

PS. It seems the Full house saved me from disaster The turn revealed 2-colored flush draws. I assume this is quite dangerous, even from preflop all-iners and should had keep the pot small somewhere in turn?

Last edited by vlzvl; Tue Nov 26, 2013 at 06:43 PM..
 
Old
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Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:10 PM
(#5)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 06:33 AM
(#6)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi vlzvl,
I will be your Hand Analyzer for this post
With a suited Ace I think the call is justifiable, but I also think we have a potential hand to 3bet preflop. As played, I like every bit of your play. Given the preflop action, I would like to believe that our hand is best OTF. AA/KK/AK/AQ would more likely 3bet preflop. So our J kicker could be the nuts here  The flop contains a FD and we can also get called by a lot of worse Ax hands, the turn puts out another Ace but also another FD so putting the rest in OTT is the right way to go, though it would be less likely now that anyone has an A since there is only one Ace remaining in the deck but I think we can still get called by a lot of draws and maybe a Kx considering stack sizes and pot value.
 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 11:13 AM
(#7)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Excellent!

You've done all 3 tasks and you'll get your first bonus in the next 24 hours, good job!

Step Two

Use your first buy-in to only play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables on PokerStars. Do not play any other type of game other than this. Post one hand that you had difficulty with here in this thread using the hand replayer and we will analyze it for you.
Please watch the following video and answer the question below.



List 3 reasons why a player may want to make a big bet?

Then study the Cash Game Course and once your happy have a go at attempting the quiz. Don't rush through the course, there's a lot of content there and the quiz is tricky so spend some time on this.

So you have 3 things to do to earn your next bonus.

1) Play the 1/2 cent Real Money tables and post an interesting hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer.
2) Watch the Bet Sizing video and answer the question below it.
3) Study and pass the Cash Game quiz.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 tasks completed and we will award you with your next buy-in.

Best of Luck!


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Nov 29, 2013, 12:23 AM
(#8)
vlzvl's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Hi,

2) 3 reasons why a player may want to make a big bet:
  • To put a lot of pressure on opponents
  • To gain value from very strong hands
  • To protect against strong draws

3) I passed the Cash game course

1) I've included 3 interesting games instead of 1, i hope it's ok.

Ok, my thoughts in each game
PS. i'm used to 6-max starting requirements and not planning to convert to Full-rings, so i might be a little wide sometimes and a little nitty sometimes in the games, i'm sorry

GAME 1




I got AJo in LP and i opened for 3BB. Everyone's folded except the BB, the 3rd biggest stack.
The flop was dry and i would make a C-bet but the BB donk-bet me for a pot-sized bet
Well, i didn't had any reason to believe he hit his 5 trips, so i called this small bet, mostly thinking that i had 2 overcards and 6 outs out there
Q1: was that a good thought, regarding the donk bet and small, yet, pot?

The BB raised about 75% the pot on a more possible holding of his (9).
My first thought was to simply let this go since the pot odds were clearly asked for a combo draw, not my non-hand but i instead called (wrongly, i know) but heck, flop was really dry and i felt i was pushed back.
The river completed a possible flush and i think he feared for it and just checked and won $0.87 with a lucky 9 in the turn.
Q2: should i let this go on turn after my initiative evaporated by a successful donk bet?


GAME 2



I am in MP with KQs and open for 3BB and again a call from BB, from a different player this time.
Q3: should i mark frequent BB callers as fishes? especially this one who byed-in for a 0.80?
The flop came almost the same texture [Ad9dAs] and again a donk bet. Not a good starting day for me
The reason i called were my pot odds (25%) and my nut flush draw (~20%).
The turn was a J and my outs increased to about ~15 (30% equity) (i added 2 outs, each for my K,Q since i could not believe he had an Ace and the pot was still bearable).
I would not add 4 outs for K,Q, since its unknown if a Pair here gives the win. I read in Harrington famous books that you can count such outs as "half" or less.
He pot-sized bet me, making the pot almost like my hand equity (~30%) and i called.
Q3: 9 outs for nut flush draw, plus 4 outs for straight and say 2 outs for K,Q. Can you fold that or believe Villain set/full-house tales?

The river missed my cards and he bet again about 1/3. To my frustration i just folded.
Q4: What should i have done in the hand?

GAME 3:




I'm in the BB this time and about devastated by previous hands..
I have A9s and the guy who donked me previously raises 3BB from LP. I'm calling with any Axs given good prices.
Flop came wet 354 rainbow, i check and he C-bet me.
I just can't believe he has anything at all so i believe in my higher-than-board cards, plus a back-door flush and call his C-bet.
River comes a 9h, giving me TPTK and decided to return some of the offense.
Q5: Not having the initiative but hitting a TPTK, should continue pouncing back or passively?
He again pot-sized bet me (0.25) and i re-raised him (0.50) and he called.
The river paired the board and just went all-in my last 0.81.
I just couldn't believe he had anything. 76? TT+? Ax, Kx?

I know i didn't play my best but never thought that donk bet was so frequently used at the tables. I just went a bit on the aggressive side to fight that. I suppose my $2 bonus also helped to almost fear for my stack and got more aggressive. With say $40 i would certainly make some folds.
And sorry about my post size

Last edited by vlzvl; Fri Nov 29, 2013 at 12:50 AM..
 
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Fri Nov 29, 2013, 12:37 AM
(#9)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting these hands for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at them for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once they've been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:13 AM
(#10)
CannonLee's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,418
Hi,

Hand Analysis

Yes you are spot on the flop, the villains leading range is going to consist of either two card flush combos or inferior high card combos, there is certainly merit to floating the donk bet and re-evaluate our course of action on the turn. We'll have decent high card showdown value versus the majority of their range.

Without specific reads about this villains post flop tendencies it's hard to say whether or not we should conitue on the turn. I'd fold to save bets for a better value spot, especially without reads on the villain.



Hand Analysis


It's easy to stereo type players based on certain things that are not normally done, don't be quick to judge them. Get a sufficient hand sample to back up your hunch, 100 hands would be plenty to go on. You'll often see the majority of all players playing much looser from the blinds than from other positions, that's simply because they have money invested and they may be getting Xamount immediate pot odds, sometimes it may be correct for them to defend liberally.

There are going to be 16 combos of each of these Ax hands, A2 A3 A4 A5 A6 A7 A8 A9 AT AJ AQ AK and some of these combos the villain may be defending their blind with. The villain could also be leading 9x on the flop A9 K9 Q9 J9 T9 98 97 for value and protection. Given that we have the intiatiave in the pot we could try to draw out but it's kind of thin..considering that we need to some of our diamond outs could improve the villain to a full house (if they did indeed have Ax).

On the turn, we had tons of equity versus a range of 9x, but however not versus Ax. Best line would be to call down without specific reads, if we had reads that the villain has been playing very loose we could consider re-opening the action on he flop or turn and put them to a decision to play for their stack. The jack is the perfect over card to the 9x plus given that we entered the pot from early position..we can credibly represents Ax and get hands like 9x 88 77 66 TT to fold..




Hand Analysis


I would have preferred to check call on the turn, it's such a dry board texture and there aren't really many other 9x combos that the villain could be entering the pot with from the cutoff, check raising will certainly get more folds than calls on this texture... There are certain river cards that could hurt the villains action and quite likely ours aswell on the river. Let's say a Q K J or T came on the river, looking at this from a combinatorics point of view there are many high card floats in this villains range and quite likely ours aswell, but even then we allow the villain to keep their entire bluffing range in the pot..basically we are value checking!


Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
CannonLee



Quintuple Bracelet Winner

 
Old
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Fri Nov 29, 2013, 03:35 PM
(#11)
vlzvl's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
@CannonLee
Thank you for the thorough analysis
Yes you've right, without reads is impossible, so i just got in the habit of taking player notes and stats using the free pokerdata service.
From now on i would be reading some hands from the table before i take any marginal action like the ones above and statistically i should do better by having some additional information
You advice for floating a donk bet is priceless, should i look for big AF post-flop to identify possible targets?

@geoVARTA
Thank you for your advices in my AJs hand.
You gave me the idea of reducing my opponent's range when i hold a strong hand, like AJs.
You're right, AQ/AK/AA/KK/QQ/JJ hands should 3-bet my AJs, thus excluding them from my thought for opponent's range after the absence of 3-bet.
Never thought of that, thank you.
 
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Sat Nov 30, 2013, 05:44 PM
(#12)
vlzvl's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Awaiting for next steps
 
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Sat Nov 30, 2013, 06:18 PM
(#13)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi vlzvl,

Fantastic!

Your next Bankroll Builder bonus is on it's way to you, great job so far.

Watch this video that will help you on the cash game tables.



There are three ways in which you can earn your next bonus.

1) Earn 10 VPPs AFTER receiving this bonus and you will automatically be credited with the next bonus. Let us know if you hit that target
2) If you lose your this bonus at the tables please post the hands where you lost the money with here in this thread. As soon as you post the losing hands we will advise on the next step.
3) If you make a first deposit at PokerStars you will automatically be awarded your remaining bonuses from the Bankroll Builder promotion.

Best of luck to you at the tables and we are here to help you should you have any questions.

Joss


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:49 PM
(#14)
vlzvl's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
my hand,
it seems the justice goes with the ones having a bankroll...
Im not meant for poker, wasted time all the books that i've read, tx for trying though
Now, i've got a non-life to continue at, bye


Last edited by vlzvl; Sat Nov 30, 2013 at 09:54 PM..
 
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Sun Dec 01, 2013, 01:03 AM
(#15)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 05:19 AM
(#16)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi vlzvl,

0.16 is what I was going for preflop. This is a really dangerous board for KK in a multiway pot. The flop is very well connected. My thought going into the hand is bet and fold to a raise and that's because in a mutliway pot like that with the preflop action we might be up against alot of sets, two pairs, straights, and big draws.

Against hands like: 99,88,55, AdQd, AdJd, AdTd, Ad9d, Ad7d, QdJd, JT, Jd9d, Td9d, 98, 76 we only have 30% equity. For that reason, I would not raise the donk bet that big because now we commit ourself to the pot. I would just raise it to 1/2 pot and fold to a shove.

This is a really tough spot to be in, I assure you. But its a good learning opportunity. Don't take your losses too hard, it's the nature of the game. And at the micros we only play to learn. Good Luck!
 

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