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5NL Zoom (6 max) AA in 3 bet pot Vs shove after board paired OTR

5NL Zoom (6 max) AA in 3 bet pot Vs shove after board paired OTR - Wed Nov 27, 2013, 10:37 AM
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
Following yesterday's Live Training Session with Gareth23, I thought I would post the following hand for your comments / feedback?


My stats: VPIP 17; PFR 12, 3bet 3 (408 hands)
Villain: VPIP 38; PFR 38; 3bet 50 (42 hands)

I had already tagged Villain as Ultra Aggressive LAG during a previous hand and notes incl. 3bet Vs MP raise with KJs [Btn] & 3bet in blinds Vs Steal with A4o; QTo.

Before I give you my thoughts... I am interested to know where do we start with Villain's range? What do you make of my bet/bet/check line... & finally whether or not we should be making the call OTR?

Welcome your thoughts / comments.


Last edited by Prodigy237; Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 10:47 AM.. Reason: Added
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 10:43 AM
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Not many draws on this board so i'd just bet/bet/shove.

If we decide to check/call we are at the top of our range so I think folding is pretty bad.
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 10:48 AM
kalahwang's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 135
I'll personally push on river.

if you played bet/bet on the river I'll play check/call due to the board texture which is dry.

We could also consider a bluff induce on the turn and play check/call OTT and OTR for an aggressive villain.
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 02:29 PM
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Do you have any post flop stats? as you are deep stacked 77,jj makes sense, he had got position ,board was very dry and he might not to raise OTF or OTT. but I wouldn't fold and against such aggressive opponent x/c river is the best option imo. Did he over played his A4,QT,KJ? Did he made light 3bet against right opp ? and if he is so aggressive wouldn't he 4bet JJ? your stats are for 408 hands but he had got just 42 right?

Last edited by Shichi-77; Wed Nov 27, 2013 at 02:32 PM..
Wed Nov 27, 2013, 04:27 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Presumably you're checking river to induce a bluff, but what bluffs can villain have? The flop was bone dry.

Bet-bet-shove for me.

Gareth's training was about bet-folding the river. Stack sizes in this one mean you can't ever fold, so just stick it all in, imo.

Bracelet Winner
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 04:35 AM
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273

I think this is a pretty good spot to shove the river for value. I don't think its that great of a spot to check-call the river, but I think check-calling might be better than check-folding.

Why is this a good spot to bet ourselves? The reason is straightforward: worse hands are likely to call. Villain seems plausible candidate to call with JX, QQ, and some 88/99/TT type stuff. We also beat J7.

What hands can we snap off with a check-call? These are mostly 89/T9/T8 hands. There are not too many of those. That's why it seems pretty close between check-call and check-fold, for this, his all-in size. The group of hands that need to bluff for this much is small (those missed gutshots, or some bizarre two over type hand like KQ) and the group of hands that make this size for value is also small (sets).

So checking seems murky and betting seems to me like it has clear value. We're going to lose to those slowplayed sets if we bet or if we check-call but we can get a lot more value from JX and QQ if we bet ourselves, since they might check-back the river and escape our evil clutches.
Thu Nov 28, 2013, 05:42 AM
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
Hi Gareth [& all],

Thank you for all your comments / feedback. My standard line would be to bet/bet/shove in this spot [... & obviously set it up with less than a pot size bet OTR], but decided to check to appear weak & exploit Villain's aggression to induce the bluff... & keep all his worse hands in.

I was not concerned that Villain had 77, JJ as was 99.9% certain that he would be raising these hands before the river especially given our strength & as Gareth suggested thought it was more likely he was holding Jx or small / mid pps 88, 99, TT [... which I accept he may well have called a shove OTR anyway].

Here's how the hand played out.


Last edited by Prodigy237; Thu Nov 28, 2013 at 08:03 AM.. Reason: Added

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