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Now This Is A Proper Bad Beat

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Now This Is A Proper Bad Beat - Wed Nov 27, 2013, 08:12 PM
(#1)
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
I was watching 4 tables the MicroMillions replays and I couldn't believe that this happened. The guy was poised to lock up an extra $2k+ but of course....



This would definitely make me quit online poker for good, so so sick. The hand in the WCOOP AA vs AA where the guy rivered a flush was also a sick beat too
 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 08:29 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Cooler? Bad beat? No way. With 9 and 12 BB no one made a mistake. No mistakes means no bad beats.
 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 08:35 PM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Cooler? Bad beat? No way. With 9 and 12 BB no one made a mistake. No mistakes means no bad beats.
I 100% agree!

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 09:24 PM
(#4)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
I think you have to have both of your Hole Cards used, and be at least quad eights and be beaten, to qualify for a bad beat.

But then again, I could be wrong.

 
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Wed Nov 27, 2013, 09:35 PM
(#5)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
It might not be a bad beat, but for sure it's a brutal run out, and a 1 outer. Sometimes lucky wins.

 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:29 AM
(#6)
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Cooler? Bad beat? No way. With 9 and 12 BB no one made a mistake. No mistakes means no bad beats.
Thats how the structure was, its a hyper turbo . So I bet you would say AA vs AA deep stacks getting it all in and one person losing is not a bad beat losing too right? Lol then you guys really dont know the definition
 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 12:50 AM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Cooler? Bad beat? No way. With 9 and 12 BB no one made a mistake. No mistakes means no bad beats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
I 100% agree!

John (JWK24)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeraxa89 View Post
Thats how the structure was, its a hyper turbo . So I bet you would say AA vs AA deep stacks getting it all in and one person losing is not a bad beat losing too right? Lol then you guys really dont know the definition

Well sure as Hell they don't know YOUR definition of one.

You seriously need to get past this obsession,it's POKER,period.

Had the money gone in on the flop or turn,then yeah,THAT would be a bad beat. As sick a run out as this was,given the stack sizes,no one,as Joe and John already said,put a wrong foot forward here.

And you use the "it was a hyper-turbo" to justify your position? You're kidding,right? Just the very nature of hypers (almost all action is push/fold pre-flop...little or no post flop play due to lack of depth) guarantees that beats like this will be much,much more prevalent. Worrying about sick beats and wild variance swings whilst playing hypers is akin to being a competitive swimmer and worrying about getting wet.

And personally,no,if I'm in the hand that you put forward,AA vs. AA,and the opp hits a 4-flush then I'm not elated about getting sick coolered,but I'm not going to whine about a bad beat. Unless I'm prepared to gripe about someone winning for making the SAME EXACT DECISION that I did,trying to get the other guy to put all his chips in against my nuts.

This mind set is holding you back and will continue to do so as long as you have it. I speak from experience,been there,done that.
 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 05:48 AM
(#8)
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Well sure as Hell they don't know YOUR definition of one.

You seriously need to get past this obsession,it's POKER,period.

Had the money gone in on the flop or turn,then yeah,THAT would be a bad beat. As sick a run out as this was,given the stack sizes,no one,as Joe and John already said,put a wrong foot forward here.

And you use the "it was a hyper-turbo" to justify your position? You're kidding,right? Just the very nature of hypers (almost all action is push/fold pre-flop...little or no post flop play due to lack of depth) guarantees that beats like this will be much,much more prevalent. Worrying about sick beats and wild variance swings whilst playing hypers is akin to being a competitive swimmer and worrying about getting wet.

And personally,no,if I'm in the hand that you put forward,AA vs. AA,and the opp hits a 4-flush then I'm not elated about getting sick coolered,but I'm not going to whine about a bad beat. Unless I'm prepared to gripe about someone winning for making the SAME EXACT DECISION that I did,trying to get the other guy to put all his chips in against my nuts.

This mind set is holding you back and will continue to do so as long as you have it. I speak from experience,been there,done that.
No its not MY definition its the POKER worlds definition. I dont know what PSO is feeding to you guys but you need to wake up, yes bad beats are apart of the game and you must accept it but lmao its pretty easy to see one.

Those two hands hands I just showed especially the AA vs AA had the entire twitter and poker forums community in awe, but here its nothing right? Just another hand no such thing as a bad beat in your minds compared to pokerpros, announcers, all team online who witnessed this hand said its a bad beat not just because of the money involved but because if you knew your math you would have to ask this. How often will you get delt AA vs AA and get it allin and lose on the river to a flush vs another AA? Those numbers are incredibly low thus the reaction in both situation i mentioned justifies a bad beat. Skip to 18:50 and watch the hand and if you still think its not a bad beat at all then most people here including you are just ignorant no offense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtArFbl_R2Y
 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 09:10 AM
(#9)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Unfortunately, bad beat and cooler are too often used interchangeably, enabled by "bad beat" jackpots that are actually "cooler" jackpots. Linguistically speaking bad beats, when a very -EV play when the bulk of the money went in hits, are a subset of coolers. The criteria for each are also somewhat fluid.
 
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Thu Nov 28, 2013, 10:24 AM
(#10)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
I also suggest you peruse the 2+2 forum for more discussion about the difference. PSO is not unique in making the distinction.
 
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Fri Nov 29, 2013, 01:55 AM
(#11)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
Unfortunately, bad beat and cooler are too often used interchangeably, enabled by "bad beat" jackpots that are actually "cooler" jackpots. Linguistically speaking bad beats, when a very -EV play when the bulk of the money went in hits, are a subset of coolers. The criteria for each are also somewhat fluid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
I also suggest you peruse the 2+2 forum for more discussion about the difference. PSO is not unique in making the distinction.

Well said Joe.

Me,I'm done,he can have at it and have fun seeing bad beats under the bed and around every corner. I don't much take offense at being called ignorant,but I'm also done trying to help someone who does so.

Had to LOL at this being my view on bad beats because of what PSO feeds us,yeah 30 years playing all sorts of poker variants didn't do diddly squat to inform my opinion.

Time to pull out an old PSO relic,since PSO was also dumped on here...


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZ
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 06:48 AM
(#12)
holdemace486's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,760
pre flop nope, not a bad beat,
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 09:22 AM
(#13)
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Sure any hand that goes in preflop is not a bad beat by your definition right?

Yet http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...-as-a-bad-beat

In the above hand the guy had a better shot at winning both cause he got 10 cards to get his 2 outs on two tries. Now what are the odds of that compared to my first post on the guy getting runner runner kings to win. Like I said most people here dont know the definition but to each their own.... might aswell delete the bad beat section
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 03:43 PM
(#14)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
That AA vs AA and river a flush has happened to me twice, once in my favour and once against.
Although, the one I won was on the turn not the river.

I have seen it also happen to other people on tables I have been at.

It is not that uncommon at all.
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 03:51 PM
(#15)
joy7108's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,284
I've found lots of "Bad Beat" definitions on the web, but they're all different:

PSO Glossary: A bad beat is When you lose a hand despite having been the clear favorite when the money went into the middle.

Read more: Glossary – Poker School Online: Learn Poker Strategy, Odds and Tells http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...#ixzz2mLf2bodR

Wikipedia: In poker, bad beat is a subjective term for a hand in which a player with what appear to be strong cards nevertheless loses. It most often occurs where one player bets the clearly stronger hand and their opponent makes a poor call that eventually "hits" and wins. There is no consensus among poker players as to what exactly constitutes a bad beat and often players will disagree about whether a particular hand was a bad beat.

Urban dictionary: Poker phrase about an improbable loss on a hand of cards. Means that you started the hand way ahead but got outdrawn, thus you suffered a bad beat.

Plus many more...

I added the hi-lite to Wiki, but I think it helps explain why no group of players seem to agree about what exactly qualifies as a bad beat. It's a term that has evolved over time, and has never been precisely defined, and probably never will. Based on the Wiki definition, the hand you posted doesn't qualify because there was no "poor play". Based on the PSO and Urban Dictionary definition, it does qualify, since the AA hand is a clear favorite when the money went into the pot.

Bottom line, it doesn't really matter how you get beat, as long as your decisions were correct along the way. The percentages will work out in the long run, and those correct decisions will result in wins.

 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 05:44 PM
(#16)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeraxa89 View Post
I was watching 4 tables the MicroMillions replays and I couldn't believe that this happened. The guy was poised to lock up an extra $2k+ but of course....



This would definitely make me quit online poker for good, so so sick. The hand in the WCOOP AA vs AA where the guy rivered a flush was also a sick beat too

I agree with the preflop odds being 85% to 15% that is was a beat strictly speaking, but this means should this be repeated roughly one time in 6 the K8 hand will win, If your going to quit poker if a 15% shot comes up then maybe poker is not for you. Yes I see its a final table but even so the same math applies, you can't tell me that anyone at this table did not get lucky at least once to be where they are at that moment.

That said when the K8 guy shoved his stack against a random hand he is 58% fav so if he had of lost he too could feel hard done by.

I did like your comment about removing the bad beat section and i'm all for it too.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by Grade b; Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 05:59 PM..
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 06:41 PM
(#17)
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
I agree with the preflop odds being 85% to 15% that is was a beat strictly speaking, but this means should this be repeated roughly one time in 6 the K8 hand will win, If your going to quit poker if a 15% shot comes up then maybe poker is not for you. Yes I see its a final table but even so the same math applies, you can't tell me that anyone at this table did not get lucky at least once to be where they are at that moment.

That said when the K8 guy shoved his stack against a random hand he is 58% fav so if he had of lost he too could feel hard done by.

I did like your comment about removing the bad beat section and i'm all for it too.

Grade b
I should say "online" poker on this site if not quit, it would be a very long time off :P I'll never fully give up until I become even more sucessfull and ultimately reach Supernova/Supernova Elite.

Yes everyone who wins a tournament gets super lucky at some point. I remember when I went through a field of 16k to final table for 5th place I got extremly lucky in spots and dealt bad beats and took some myself.

The point I am trying to make is these guys are one moments saying my hands I post arent bad beats but the AA vs KK hand is all of a sudden a bad beat. It makes no sense given both hands were allin preflop.
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 06:59 PM
(#18)
Killeraxa89's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
I've found lots of "Bad Beat" definitions on the web, but they're all different:

PSO Glossary: A bad beat is When you lose a hand despite having been the clear favorite when the money went into the middle.

Read more: Glossary – Poker School Online: Learn Poker Strategy, Odds and Tells http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...#ixzz2mLf2bodR

Wikipedia: In poker, bad beat is a subjective term for a hand in which a player with what appear to be strong cards nevertheless loses. It most often occurs where one player bets the clearly stronger hand and their opponent makes a poor call that eventually "hits" and wins. There is no consensus among poker players as to what exactly constitutes a bad beat and often players will disagree about whether a particular hand was a bad beat.

Urban dictionary: Poker phrase about an improbable loss on a hand of cards. Means that you started the hand way ahead but got outdrawn, thus you suffered a bad beat.

Plus many more...

I added the hi-lite to Wiki, but I think it helps explain why no group of players seem to agree about what exactly qualifies as a bad beat. It's a term that has evolved over time, and has never been precisely defined, and probably never will. Based on the Wiki definition, the hand you posted doesn't qualify because there was no "poor play". Based on the PSO and Urban Dictionary definition, it does qualify, since the AA hand is a clear favorite when the money went into the pot.

Bottom line, it doesn't really matter how you get beat, as long as your decisions were correct along the way. The percentages will work out in the long run, and those correct decisions will result in wins.

Well there you go everyone has their own understanding. Those announcers and team online guys saw that hand AA vs AA as one of the ultimate bad beats, which I agree but PSO does not

This hand while the guy did shove with K8 and got called, imagine if this was the final table of the WSOP of poker and the flop came AjK everyone would think its all over. Then another king comes, you who hold AA must just be laughing saying "theres always a sweat" thinking there no way the case king can appear.....THEN BOOOOOOOM the guy rivered the only card in the entire deck to cost you millions and have you set for life being the world champ. Bad beat central and in this case the final table of the MicroMillions is just as bad!

AA % to win
Preflop: 84:23%
Flop: 93.76%
Turn: 97.81
River: 0%

Just stop it Bad beat central case close. This thread has run its course and I'd like a mod to lock it please no point in speaking any further.
 
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Mon Dec 02, 2013, 11:43 PM
(#19)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Killer,

You have the freedom to define bad beat, or any other word or word combination, however ever you choose.

But if you wish to communicate with people you must have agreement on definitions or communication fails. You obviously hold a minority opinion in this forum. Don't expect changes being made to suit you when most don't hold to your definition.

And expecting a thread to be shut down when you don't get agreement and platitudes is a pure show of hubris.
 
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Tue Dec 03, 2013, 04:05 AM
(#20)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by joy7108 View Post
I've found lots of "Bad Beat" definitions on the web, but they're all different:

PSO Glossary: A bad beat is When you lose a hand despite having been the clear favorite when the money went into the middle.



I have learned not to let bad beats bother me.
As you all say you got it in ahead what more do you want.
I think no matter how it plays out if you got your money in with 75% equity or better it was a bad beat.

Last edited by chuckkky; Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 04:30 PM..
 

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