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HUD's...are they really worth the investment?

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HUD's...are they really worth the investment? - Wed Dec 04, 2013, 04:22 PM
(#1)
Miss_My_Aces's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 26
I have been wondering about HUD's for some time, is it 1. really worth getting, 2. if so which one is the best and 3. what am i actually getting for my money?
 
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Wed Dec 04, 2013, 04:27 PM
(#2)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
** moved to Poker Software & Hardware **


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Wed Dec 04, 2013, 04:33 PM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
HUDs in and of themselves are not the be all and end all of online poker. Sandtrap is proof of that as he doesnt use one and kills the games.

What is worth the money is the database you build of your own playing history, the study you can put in away from the table when not playing, learning tendencies of the player pool you are in.

I prefer HEM. Hard to say why but I used both during the trial and HEM just felt better to me.
 
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Wed Dec 04, 2013, 05:26 PM
(#4)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
thanks bhoy,

I agree, the software is a must have tool, to analyze your play, find your leaks and more, but to be used as a HUD, personally, I think it should be used when you have reached a certain level of play and a very good knowledge of the game.

A HUD, will more than harm you as you will be letting the HUD dictate your plays as you're not sure what to do. Also, with all the fish swimming in 2NL, a HUD is pretty useless

That's just my opinion
 
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Wed Dec 04, 2013, 05:56 PM
(#5)
Miss_My_Aces's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 26
ok so i have just downloaded from trial of hm2...**deleted inappropriate language JWK24**!!! that looks like some complicated shizzle... any ideas as to good pages to learn where to begin learning lol

Last edited by JWK24; Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 06:03 PM..
 
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Wed Dec 04, 2013, 06:04 PM
(#6)
Miss_My_Aces's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 26
do the huds track during freerolls, or only cash games, mtt/sng?
 
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Wed Dec 04, 2013, 06:06 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss_My_Aces View Post
do the huds track during freerolls, or only cash games, mtt/sng?
It depends on the site. For PokerStars, they track both cash and play money games.

John (JWK24)


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Thu Dec 05, 2013, 02:49 AM
(#8)
Miss_My_Aces's Avatar
Since: Nov 2013
Posts: 26
is there any good places to learn how to use hm2?
 
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Thu Dec 05, 2013, 03:27 AM
(#9)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Their forums?

Best place I can think of.
 
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Thu Dec 05, 2013, 06:05 AM
(#10)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I really struggled with a HUD when I first used one, it sent me on tilt and information overload kicked in. A HUD is just information, if you can't digest that information then it's of no use to you. It's also only an indicator, it's only a tool that can influence your decisions.

If you are a beginner then learn the basics before you attempt to use a HUD. If you do pay for tracking software then use it's most useful feature - analysing your own game.

A HUD never turned me into a better player (PSO and analysing my own stats done that) but a HUD has enabled me to multi table without having to watch each table to keep notes.


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Thu Dec 05, 2013, 06:06 AM
(#11)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss_My_Aces View Post
is there any good places to learn how to use hm2?
I hacven't watched this but Youtube is always good for learning material.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTTLLaeOzsQ


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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:07 AM
(#12)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
thanks bhoy,

I agree, the software is a must have tool, to analyze your play, find your leaks and more, but to be used as a HUD, personally, I think it should be used when you have reached a certain level of play and a very good knowledge of the game.

A HUD, will more than harm you as you will be letting the HUD dictate your plays as you're not sure what to do. Also, with all the fish swimming in 2NL, a HUD is pretty useless

That's just my opinion
I wholly agree with this point and I'll add my 2c on top.

A HUD can be distracting as you might not know exactly what the informations displayed mean, so it requires that you do some detailed study into what is shown and what each percentage means by itself and combined.

A HUD can also point you in the wrong direction for sheer lack of a valuable sample, most players you'll encounter at the micros wont have any hand recorded or you might save a few hundreds, that's nothing, within the same session I see my stats ranging from 8/8 at a table to 30/25 at another one, in the long run it all average out, in a session the cards might give you a wrong idea of the player.

Mostly I use HM2 as a DB and for reviews, keep the HUD on to get used to it, but if I don't see a decent number of collected hands I simply ignore what it says.

Your own reads have priority, HUD is just a tool to complement.
 
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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:30 AM
(#13)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I love the HUD. Playing 4 Tables 6Max Zoom. it helps big time especially in steal situations. You can quickly identify who likes to squeeze/steal too much and then you can resteal/4Bet light accordingly.

Also if you know someone is atypically aggressive or passive postflop, you can figure out how to extract value appropriately against different villain types.

I've even found it useful for tournaments - I use acoimbra's HUD. His blog seems to be down at the moment so I'll post a link when it's back working again.
 
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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:05 AM
(#14)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Spand,
I also play 4 tables of Zoom and I don't use a HUD (now at 200NL)
If you're in a steal situation based on the numbers you have and he just happens to have hit, you're spewing money. Also there's nothing that tells you if he was in a learning process and now has gotten better, or he's fed up of you stealing and now 3Bets with air.

I've proven to someone here that I steal much less than he does and not only my profit is higher than his but also my winning percentage, which results in higher BB/100

But to each their own, all I'm saying is that beginners (up to 25NL) should first learn to play poker, be winners and then add to their tools a HUD
 
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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:31 PM
(#15)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I entirely agree that having a HUD should come secondary to learning the necessary skills first.

You're right that having a HUD can get you in trouble on occasion, but I feel the times my plays are successful outweigh the times when they actually have it.

I think having tracking software is pretty essential to improving your play so you can review your hands even if you don't use the HUD.
 
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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 12:40 PM
(#16)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
My theory, not just for HUDs, but like, in life (that sounds so deep .. lol) is that ... if there's two different schools of thought on how to do something, either:

1. one way is better some of the time, and the other way is better the other half of the time, or
2. they're both equally the same.


And the vast majority of the time it's #1, so like ... wouldn't that mean it's important to be comfortable with both methods, so that you know the pluses/minuses of both, and can know which is best at any given time?

Like, being proficient in both would maybe allow one to maximize the benefits of both methods, while minimizing the drawbacks?


I don't know

Last edited by TrustySam; Mon Dec 16, 2013 at 12:56 PM..
 
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Mon Dec 16, 2013, 01:51 PM
(#17)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Poker is a game of incomplete information.
HUDs give you some information, and that info has value.
Just how much value really depends on your ability to understand and utilize the numbers. I think that just having VPIP and PFR on your screen will help with categorizing and colour-coding your opponents, and that info can help instantly with marginal decisions like "Is this guy likely to fold to my steal?" or "Can I 3-bet for value against this guy that opened in MP?".

Without stats, it's very hard to get quick reads when multitabling or playing Zoom. If you don't have some basic stats to hand, then everyone is virtually unknown. I don't like playing unknowns. I want to play against players who have known tendencies that I can exploit. If you're not using a HUD to exploit your opponents, there's a good chance that your opponents are using a HUD to exploit you.

I can't quantify how much money my HUD has earned/saved me, but I think HEM and PT offer good value to anyone that's serious about improving their game. As something of a "stats geek", I also get a certain amount of pleasure trying to "translate" the numbers into ways to beat people. If you're not particularly math-inclined, then you might find a HUD is more of distraction or even a hindrance to your play.


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Thu Dec 19, 2013, 08:40 AM
(#18)
PokerPest72's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 247
BronzeStar
To stay in the game from a SNG and MTT point of view I find them essential, and I think there are some hud stats that are essential, while I was always taught vpip and pfr are essential, I find that these stats can be misleading as there are some good players with high vpip and pfr.

Personally the most important stats for me are limp fold to raise, limp call raise, fold to steal and steal from late position, these stats help me to win games.

I also use chat as a tool, e.g if a player has a high late position steal ratio but calls 3bets ip, then just let him know in chat u know what he's up to, now a good player is going to ignore this but many learning players get phased by this and tend to tighten up saving your chips, if you have an ammo box full of bullets and 1 grenade in there then why use it until you really need to

Anything that gives you an edge in the game increases your chances of making itm.


Gl.PP72
 
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Sun Dec 22, 2013, 10:12 PM
(#19)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
my 20 cents worth can be found here

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/Grade+b/hud-s

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

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Mon Dec 23, 2013, 08:12 AM
(#20)
powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
BronzeStar
I feel you misquoted me in your blog, as by simply saying "A HUD can be distracting as you might not know exactly what the information displayed mean" can have a negative value, whereas I value HUD a great deal.

Mine was simply a warning that, to the novice player, a HUD can do more harm then good as he could be distracted by placing too much trust on those numbers, when probably he doesn't even fully understand them yet.

This comes from personal experience. When I first bought HM wasn't for the HUD, was for the database, so that I could store and review my hands. I remember firing the HUD and I couldn't make sense out of it, so for a good while I just didn't use it. Eventually I learned what those stats are and slowly became familiar with them, that's when I started firing the HUD.

To date, I still don't trust those numbers a great deal, still, when multitabling they can be a great help.
 

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