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10NL KK in BB vs UTG open and Button 3bet

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10NL KK in BB vs UTG open and Button 3bet - Mon Dec 09, 2013, 02:41 PM
(#1)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I'm kinda mixed on how I played this.

UTG+1 is a 19/16 player but is actually opening 20% in EP and gets tighter in later positions. Possibly an anomaly over an 86 hand sample size.

Button is a 15/13 player with a 9.7% 3bet statistic. I'm unaware of what this is vs an EP raise.

So, UTG+1 opens, Button 3bets. I think he is likely to be strong given this action and while he can definitely be lighter I tend to range people fairly tightly. I assume that he likely has hands such as JJ+ and AKo/AKs.

If I 4bet I will feel obligated to get it in if he shoves. If I call I can keep the wider part of his range in and reassess on each street. His Ag is 3.2 so moderately aggressive and will usually bet if he thinks he is ahead.

I elected to do the latter and called his bets.

I feel like I am supposed to lose a stack here?

Opinions on my line please.


Last edited by bhoylegend; Mon Dec 09, 2013 at 02:45 PM..
 
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Tue Dec 10, 2013, 05:59 AM
(#2)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi bhoylegend,

I agree that BTN's 3bet range will be strong here against an UTG open (its UTG not UTG+1) but we are at the top of our range here. 100bbs deep I have no problem stacking off pre with KK. BTN has a 9.7% 3bet and that's high but even if we think he will only 3bet UTG with QQ+ or just 1.4% of their range we are even money. Add just 1 combo of AK and we are a slight favorite.
 
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Tue Dec 10, 2013, 07:37 AM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Yeah, I generally do get it in here pre assuming button shoves if I raise it up, it's not really an excuse but I just had an ominous feeling about the hand so rather than play it optimally I chose this line.

As played, donk shove river to represent the straight draw getting there? Middle pocket pairs are legitimate for calling (not saying optimal but that he could put me on this) so with just an over pair he may have laid it down thinking I had rivered the straight or a set.
 
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Tue Dec 10, 2013, 10:15 AM
(#4)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
Yeah, I generally do get it in here pre assuming button shoves if I raise it up, it's not really an excuse but I just had an ominous feeling about the hand so rather than play it optimally I chose this line.

As played, donk shove river to represent the straight draw getting there? Middle pocket pairs are legitimate for calling (not saying optimal but that he could put me on this) so with just an over pair he may have laid it down thinking I had rivered the straight or a set.
Hi bhoylegend,

I agree with George... Most optimal line is to 4bet with with a view to getting it in p/f especially as we still have the original raiser [UTG] to act behind... or OTF with this board texture.

As played, we are left playing the guessing game by x/c [... & we're still losing to AA] & in answer to your question I'm not sure how often Villain is folding OTR to a donk/shove having invested over 50% of his stack.

GL @ the tables,

Tony

Last edited by Prodigy237; Tue Dec 10, 2013 at 10:17 AM.. Reason: Added
 
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Tue Dec 10, 2013, 12:23 PM
(#5)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
If you are going to call down most board runouts, why not just shove pre?

If he has QQ and an A hits on the flop and you check it down we've lost heaps of value.

I just think slowplaying here is more trouble than it's worth.

I'd make it $2.50 to go and call if shoved on
 
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Tue Dec 10, 2013, 01:02 PM
(#6)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I do tend to 4bet GII 99% of the time which is why this hand felt kind of awkward to me the way I played it. I can shake off the cooler when it happens so should have just stuck the money in. That's why I posted it, it felt like I played the hand weakly and meekly, just needed the reassurance that I should lose more here. Strange thing to look reassurance on
 
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Wed Dec 11, 2013, 06:28 AM
(#7)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
As played, donk shove river to represent the straight draw getting there? Middle pocket pairs are legitimate for calling (not saying optimal but that he could put me on this) so with just an over pair he may have laid it down thinking I had rivered the straight or a set.
Hey bhoy! Sounds like you want to turn KK into a bluff to fold AA?!
By cold calling the 3bet OOP we put ourselves into a tricky spot here; it would have been all gone easier if we 4bet/got it in and lost to AA
 
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Wed Dec 11, 2013, 06:34 AM
(#8)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
Hey bhoy! Sounds like you want to turn KK into a bluff to fold AA?!
By cold calling the 3bet OOP we put ourselves into a tricky spot here; it would have been all gone easier if we 4bet/got it in and lost to AA
I was just considering, after the event, whether on that board run-out a shove would have convinced him that I rivered some sort of straight.

I've no idea whether he would have folded of course but the fact that he checked behind showed that he was concerned about it certainly.

I agree it would have been easier to go all in pre, and chalk it up to a cooler, I dunno if subconsciously it was at the back of my mind that I have seen AA v KK so often recently. Its just variance at work.

I must be over it though:

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...029_C38202F145
 

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