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and it strikes again,.,,

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and it strikes again,.,, - Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:51 PM
(#1)
magicius's Avatar
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http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...036_A1D29409BF

damn 6 came on river...
 
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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:17 PM
(#2)
magicius's Avatar
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http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...927_40EDC20022

had a laugh in this hand tho
 
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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:30 PM
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In the first one, the bets were so small that the opp was never priced out. If they're not priced out, they SHOULD stay in the hand. If the bets were high enough to price them out, that's the only way they should fold.

The second one is a standard cooler. Jx should never be folding the turn there, ever.

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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:47 PM
(#4)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Hand 1 was very loose play in the first place, yeah, it ended up being a suck out, but sometimes K9 doesnt hold.


Second hand, Boomplayer seems to be broken because the action in it doesnt make any sense. It shows you as limp/raising with TT UTG+1, flopping Quads, taking about 7 bets to get to $1, then making a ridiculously small turn bet and proceeding to mess about again. Would almost have been justice if he had JJ going by that action.

Can you post the real hand history for it?

Cheers.
 
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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:10 PM
(#5)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
K9s should never be calling that 3 bet, ever.
 
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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:49 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post

Me too...when you open limped the 10's.
 
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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:50 PM
(#7)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
Hand 1 was very loose play in the first place, yeah, it ended up being a suck out, but sometimes K9 doesnt hold.


Second hand, Boomplayer seems to be broken because the action in it doesnt make any sense. It shows you as limp/raising with TT UTG+1, flopping Quads, taking about 7 bets to get to $1, then making a ridiculously small turn bet and proceeding to mess about again. Would almost have been justice if he had JJ going by that action.

Can you post the real hand history for it?

Cheers.

Well played bhoy,you cheeky monkey you.
 
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Thu Dec 12, 2013, 07:31 PM
(#8)
ketchup143's Avatar
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why does everyone minraise? seriously, stop.
 
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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 07:34 AM
(#9)
magicius's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
Me too...when you open limped the 10's.
i limp it on purpose cuz i limp pocket pairs quite often...

when i raise pocket pair JJ QQ KK AA 85% of time i got beaten...

and about silly betting on turn dunno why i didnt just shove there
 
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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
i limp it on purpose cuz i limp pocket pairs quite often...

when i raise pocket pair JJ QQ KK AA 85% of time i got beaten...
Limping big pairs is a recipe for disaster. Doing so gives the opps the correct odds to be in the hand. When they get the correct odds to play, they will win chips on average and if I do so, I deserve to lose the hand. I need to be making plays where I expect to gain chips, not to lose chips.. and limping pairs and making non-normal bets that price in opps are plays where I'd expect to lose chips.

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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 10:40 AM
(#11)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
I think there can always be a valid argument made for limping early with AA/KK though IF you know you are on a really aggy table.
 
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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 10:49 AM
(#12)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
I think there can always be a valid argument made for limping early with AA/KK though IF you know you are on a really aggy table.
I disagree. If you're on a really aggro table, there's more value in raising, expecting aggro players to 3-bet you, so you can get stacks in even more easily.


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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 10:52 AM
(#13)
JWK24's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
I disagree. If you're on a really aggro table, there's more value in raising, expecting aggro players to 3-bet you, so you can get stacks in even more easily.
+1

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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 11:19 AM
(#14)
magicius's Avatar
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Well that is normal thing to do with big pairs,but since online players call with pretty much anything i feel its much safer to limp kk and see if there is an ace,fold it cuz u are up againsrt guy with a5o...
Yesterday i lost like 4 hands,some of bigger pots,some of allins
With AA vs 5set,Kk vs AK and even KK vs 46o(he prolly was shot stack tilt all in,but i couldnt fold...
 
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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 11:27 AM
(#15)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
I disagree. If you're on a really aggro table, there's more value in raising, expecting aggro players to 3-bet you, so you can get stacks in even more easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
+1

John (JWK24)

Well you may both disagree, but you would both be wrong to do so.

To be as ABC as to say there is never a scenario where limping on an aggy table from early position is valid, is niave at best.

Of course there will be various meta factors involved, including player histories and notes, whether MTT/SNG/CASH, stack sizes, your perceived table image as well and all the usual other suspects. However to say there is never going to be a valid situation where it could be a valid play is not only very blinkered, but also plain bizzare.
 
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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 11:35 AM
(#16)
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When the opps get the right odds to be in the hand, the cards that either hold are 100% irrelevant.

I could have AA every hand, they could have 27o every hand... they will WIN chips on average, each and every time.

The way to win at poker is to make the opps make plays where they expect to lose chips. Betting too small or inviting opps into hands for the right price means that I should expect to lose.. and will lose.

If I'm not willing to make standard bets and raises, then I'm going to be a losing player on average as the odds will always be against me... which is why I will NOT make plays like that.

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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 11:39 AM
(#17)
JWK24's Avatar
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Danutz,

I didn't say never.. but on average, I will win a more chips by raising on an aggro table, as I can get more chips into the pot quicker and get stacks in easier.

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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:15 PM
(#18)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Danutz,

I didn't say never.. but on average, I will win a more chips by raising on an aggro table, as I can get more chips into the pot quicker and get stacks in easier.

John (JWK24)

Hey I never said I wouldn't be raising pre because I will be everytime. If the situation allows though I will be inclined from early position to limp first though, so to set it up to come over the top pre if the hand plays out correctly and how it has been read.
 
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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:27 PM
(#19)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
Well you may both disagree, but you would both be wrong to do so.

To be as ABC as to say there is never a scenario where limping on an aggy table from early position is valid, is niave at best.
If you have a tracker, then filter all your AA/KK hands. Now compare your winrate when you raise to when you limp in EP with those hands. Over a decent sample size, I guarantee that raising is more profitable, because raising with AA is more +EV than limping in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
Of course there will be various meta factors involved, including player histories and notes, whether MTT/SNG/CASH, stack sizes, your perceived table image as well and all the usual other suspects. However to say there is never going to be a valid situation where it could be a valid play is not only very blinkered, but also plain bizzare.
I never said limping is always wrong. I think open-limping in early position 100bb deep is a big mistake, however. Other situations can be quite different.

Somehwat sppokily, in the last 4 times I've had AA, I played it in slightly fancy ways. I raised as normal once, open-limped once (in the small blind, not EP, to induce a shove, 10bb deep in a PSO MTT), flat-called a cold 4-bet after raising UTG (and tripled up like a boss!) and flat-called a resteal in button vs blind to win a stack on the turn. The plays I made were designed to maximise value. Open-limping in EP doesn't do that. It just causes problems, and is not recommended for anyone without solid reads and decent post-flop skills. Johnny Chan might slowplay aces. Most 2NL players are not Johnny Chan.


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Wed Dec 18, 2013, 12:50 PM
(#20)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
i limp it on purpose cuz i limp pocket pairs quite often...

when i raise pocket pair JJ QQ KK AA 85% of time i got beaten...

If either of these statements are true (#1 may be,if so,that's bad on you...#2 is straight up bull puckey,I mean come on,be serious...)then rest assured there are fellow school members "buddy listing" you as we speak.
 

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