Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

5nl zoom TT

Old
Default
5nl zoom TT - Fri Dec 20, 2013, 12:48 AM
(#1)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504

27/22
3b from BB 23.1
cbet 78 flop, 99 turn.
wtsd 20; 114 hands;
What do I do with this hand? It seems too light to get it in preflop, and postflop I have to fold on most boards, we don't have odds to setmine. What else is there? Fold?

Last edited by Praydk; Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 12:53 AM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:29 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Fine.
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 20, 2013, 10:44 AM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
I think I'd fold to the rather large 3-bet. You don'thave set-mining odds and the hand will be hard to play profitably without the initiative even in position.


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:38 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Hi Pray,

Against a guy who is 3-betting out of the blinds in such an out of line fashion, I am very reluctant to fold a hand as strong as TT. And I do think that we can profitably 4b/get it in here preflop, between the EV from the folds we get to our 4b + our equity vs his stack off range. Since he's going to be aggro post and we can get into a fair bit of sticky spots with TT (like this one), I'd like to take that leverage away from him and exploit his wild 3-betting pre.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 20, 2013, 12:58 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Hi Pray,

Against a guy who is 3-betting out of the blinds in such an out of line fashion, I am very reluctant to fold a hand as strong as TT. And I do think that we can profitably 4b/get it in here preflop, between the EV from the folds we get to our 4b + our equity vs his stack off range. Since he's going to be aggro post and we can get into a fair bit of sticky spots with TT (like this one), I'd like to take that leverage away from him and exploit his wild 3-betting pre.
Hi Dave i agree on the not folding TT yet as this guy is getting out of line and i would assume you would flat some suited broadways vs this guy also?

But my main question though is how can we be sure that even though he is out of line 3betting that he will get it in with worse than TT?
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:39 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,487
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Hi Dave i agree on the not folding TT yet as this guy is getting out of line and i would assume you would flat some suited broadways vs this guy also?
Yes, big broadways and aces I don't want to stack off pre but have too much value vs his range to 4b/fold... AQ, AJs, KQs type stuff

Quote:
But my main question though is how can we be sure that even though he is out of line 3betting that he will get it in with worse than TT?
Here's the beautiful thing about this guy... it doesn't matter.

Let's say that his stack off range is JJ+, AQ+ hypothetically. We're a dog to this range, with about 40% equity (a tighter stack off range and we'd be a bigger dog). But this represents only 4.2% of starting hands. Which is a big problem for him with a 3b % this far out of line at 23%. It means 4.2/23 ~ 18% of the time we would get it in with 40% equity, but 82% of the time he's got something that's not JJ+, AQ+. If he folds all that stuff, we are taking down the pot uncontested 4 out of 5 times, which helps compensate for getting it in with 40% equity the other time. If he defends more frequently, then he has to start including worse hands and our TT's equity goes up. His only real defense against this problem is to not 3b so frequently... his 3b range is very unbalanced to non-premiums so when we 4b he either has to give up too much, or continue with weak values too much.

The real quibble here imo should be that the sample size is too small to rely on the 23% number, which is a fair argument. But it's high enough and his other aggression numbers high enough that I think he is in fact out of line too much (even if not a full 23%) and I'm willing to press this spot personally.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner




Last edited by TheLangolier; Fri Dec 20, 2013 at 01:42 PM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:48 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Right i see, so lets says i 4bet this guy and he flats we would go with our hand on most flops?

Like all low flops and what about Qxx Kxx and Axx? I think if he does flat a 4bet it would be with some weaker broadways so would we still go with it on the broadway flops as well.

I remember how you said we should go with our hand on that one hand i posted ages ago where i had AK that makes sense but how would TT play on those broadway flops?
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com