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how to play dis 2pair

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how to play dis 2pair - Sun Dec 22, 2013, 12:14 PM
(#1)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
tried to extract value from QQ, KK , AA but yes, guess wut , im dead again...

i guess i should be checkcalling to hit fullhouse but then again, he can alrdy haz set of TT or JJ which im dead against... so i again rather push it...

how can i suspect him to minreraise preflop 89o and hit straight? yes happens to me only

a while after that, another player minreraised like this too, so i rereraised him, and he had AA in the end of hand...
so cant rly read much from getting minreraised ... i can only stop getting bad situations like this...
 
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Sun Dec 22, 2013, 12:26 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Personally, I would just fold this pre to the 3bet.

We are suited but the cards are not connected enough for me. When we hit a flop like that, although we can be ahead a lot, our hand isnt even close to the best one out there.
 
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Sun Dec 22, 2013, 12:30 PM
(#3)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
Personally, I would just fold this pre to the 3bet.

We are suited but the cards are not connected enough for me. When we hit a flop like that, although we can be ahead a lot, our hand isnt even close to the best one out there.

This.

Massive leak.
 
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Sun Dec 22, 2013, 01:44 PM
(#4)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
calling pre is massive leak? r u both kidding?
money are made postflop and he could do dat with any hand like he did..
 
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Sun Dec 22, 2013, 01:48 PM
(#5)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
calling pre is massive leak? r u both kidding?
money are made postflop and he could do dat with any hand like he did..
J7s is an average hand. If you are calling 3bets with that then fair play to you, if it is profitable for you, that is wonderful.

Are you calling stuff like K2o here too?

EDIT: Oh, you're playing it OOP too, which is even harder.

Last edited by bhoylegend; Sun Dec 22, 2013 at 02:02 PM..
 
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Sun Dec 22, 2013, 02:42 PM
(#6)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
J7s is an average hand. If you are calling 3bets with that then fair play to you, if it is profitable for you, that is wonderful.

Are you calling stuff like K2o here too?

EDIT: Oh, you're playing it OOP too, which is even harder.
This, again.

Massive leak, still.
 
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Mon Dec 23, 2013, 04:16 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi Naturo,

Firstly I would open fold this hand preflop without any reads on P1-P3. If we have good exploitable reads then we can start opening when appropriate to play the player, because J7s alone doesn't great hand value or post flop playability. I would also fold to the 3b preflop, playing this hand out of position without the initiative is not going to be profitable long term.

Once we hit the flop, I don't mind leading, but I think 3-betting and getting it is going to be pretty bad for us. Our equity vs. the range of hands that will raise and stack off this flop texture isn't good. There are hands in his stack off range that destroy us (JJ, TT, 77, JTs) and combo draws that we are flipping against. We are a 2-1 favorite against overpairs, but no read to say he would raise/stack those off. If he does this with 100% of overpairs, we're a favorite vs. this range, but if he doesn't ever stack off an overpair in the flop we're a significant dog.

So we're probably better calling the raise, and committing on a blank turn, or check/folding to coordinated turns. If this seems kind of meh, well that's why we should generally just fold preflop.

Quote:
how can i suspect him to minreraise preflop 89o and hit straight?
You can't, but you still have to assess and play vs. his range. Which, btw, his entire range to raise/get it in on the flop, beats you on this run out, since all draws and even overpairs got there. If we had called the raise, we could have comfortably check/folding to a big turn bet and not gotten stacked here.


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Mon Dec 23, 2013, 04:20 PM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
They are not kidding. Massive leak.

Don't take our word for it. Do you use a stat tracker? If not, do you have the PS client save hands to your hard drive? I hope so, since you could get a free trial of a stat tracker and dump the HH's into it.

Filter for pots you open, and call a 3b out of position. Filter to remove all premium hands like TT-AA, AQ+. Then see how much money you're making (or losing) in spots like this. Then you might be more inclined to pass on J7s.


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Mon Dec 23, 2013, 06:39 PM
(#9)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
They are not kidding. Massive leak.

Don't take our word for it. Do you use a stat tracker? If not, do you have the PS client save hands to your hard drive? I hope so, since you could get a free trial of a stat tracker and dump the HH's into it.

Filter for pots you open, and call a 3b out of position. Filter to remove all premium hands like TT-AA, AQ+. Then see how much money you're making (or losing) in spots like this. Then you might be more inclined to pass on J7s.
i used to have HM2 but trial version timed out, so now i have nothing, anyways i used it only for graph results and to check hand histories that which pots lost me all moneys...

im not a big fan of theory that HM stats during play influences your game much
 
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Mon Dec 23, 2013, 10:02 PM
(#10)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
i used to have HM2 but trial version timed out, so now i have nothing, anyways i used it only for graph results and to check hand histories that which pots lost me all moneys...
im not a big fan of theory that HM stats during play influences your game much
That last bit is fine, but everyone in this thread is talking about using a tracker away from the table to find your leaks. Calling raises (and especially re-raises) OOP with junk is one of the most common and biggest drains on a bankroll. Just about no one makes money playing bloated pots out of position without the initiative. That's why we iso-raise people when we have position on them: they can't make money by calling.
Being the aggressor in position is +EV. Being a caller without position is not, especially when the caller has jack high. Fish make bad calls with jack high pre-flop. Don't be a fish.


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Tue Dec 24, 2013, 04:57 AM
(#11)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
That last bit is fine, but everyone in this thread is talking about using a tracker away from the table to find your leaks. Calling raises (and especially re-raises) OOP with junk is one of the most common and biggest drains on a bankroll. Just about no one makes money playing bloated pots out of position without the initiative. That's why we iso-raise people when we have position on them: they can't make money by calling.
Being the aggressor in position is +EV. Being a caller without position is not, especially when the caller has jack high. Fish make bad calls with jack high pre-flop. Don't be a fish.
could u pls tell me name of such free software for tracking ?
 
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Tue Dec 24, 2013, 02:33 PM
(#12)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
I don't think any of the free trackers allow you to do filter-based leak-finding to the extent that PT4 and HEM2 do, but FPDB (Free Poker Database) might be usable.


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Tue Dec 24, 2013, 05:49 PM
(#13)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
I don't think any of the free trackers allow you to do filter-based leak-finding to the extent that PT4 and HEM2 do, but FPDB (Free Poker Database) might be usable.
ok just got FPDB, i likez dat itz programmed in pyth0n (iz a programming language if ya not kn0w), cuz am about to learn that language during these holidayz

but as i tried it, it does show graphs nicely mb even better than HM2 , but it doesnt have any features for leak-finding , or does it?
 

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