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nuts vs second nuts

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nuts vs second nuts - Wed Dec 25, 2013, 01:31 PM
(#1)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
would someone fold this postflop?
i know i know,birday, u would fold pre
 
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Wed Dec 25, 2013, 05:14 PM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
I'd fold pre as well. Out of position and NOT closing the betting make this a horrible spot. Calling post with a 2nd nut straight and none of the flush draw is the bigger mistake of the two.

Still taking shots is would seem. Or are you testing the waters now?
 
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Wed Dec 25, 2013, 05:28 PM
(#3)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
I'd fold pre as well. Out of position and NOT closing the betting make this a horrible spot. Calling post with a 2nd nut straight and none of the flush draw is the bigger mistake of the two.

Still taking shots is would seem. Or are you testing the waters now?
my BR is 230$ despite today's unlucky spots...so i can still play 10NL as i have +20BI
went allin OTF and had 97% , villain run! forest gump , run!
also lost preflop allin w/ AA against TT ..so safe flop and forest gump rivers straight
and made one horrible bluff for 15$ but whatever... wont do it again
 
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Wed Dec 25, 2013, 07:51 PM
(#4)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Massive leak.

Again.
 
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Wed Dec 25, 2013, 09:20 PM
(#5)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
23 BI is a bit small unless your a recreational player or otherwise playing on disposable income. I waited until the BR was 40 BI before making a few tries at the next level.

But there is a lesson you really need to learn to excel at this game:
You make for from your opponents mistakes than from your own good play.

Blaming others for their bad play is ridiculous as you want them to play poorly. On the felt, you only control your actions and no one else's. Our poor decisions are -EV (or +EV for our opponent).

Good decisions for the win!

Last edited by TrumpinJoe; Wed Dec 25, 2013 at 09:23 PM..
 
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Wed Dec 25, 2013, 10:54 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
Pro-tip: Stop calling raises OOP with trouble hands.

If you fold pre, you won't keep running into trouble spots like this. You end up faced with really tricky turn and river decisions, the like of which most winning players never have to worry about... because they aren't calling with K9 in the SB in the first place.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:26 AM
(#7)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
You like playing these marginal hands out of position don't you?!

Everybody else has covered the main points

This is a pretty clear fold preflop - you're likely going to be out of position against at least 2 opponents with a hand that's really easily dominated.

I also don't really like the donklead on the flop. Against just V1 this might well knock him out of the hand, but you're almost never going to get two folds and you'll be left with king high on a pretty wet flop.

Obviously the turn is a terrible card for you and I don't see any other option that to get the money in by the river.

FWIW I think V3 also played the hand pretty badly at most decision points - he was just lucky that he got value from you because you had the 2nd nuts.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:36 AM
(#8)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
You like playing these marginal hands out of position don't you?!

Everybody else has covered the main points

This is a pretty clear fold preflop - you're likely going to be out of position against at least 2 opponents with a hand that's really easily dominated.

I also don't really like the donklead on the flop. Against just V1 this might well knock him out of the hand, but you're almost never going to get two folds and you'll be left with king high on a pretty wet flop.

Obviously the turn is a terrible card for you and I don't see any other option that to get the money in by the river.

FWIW I think V3 also played the hand pretty badly at most decision points - he was just lucky that he got value from you because you had the 2nd nuts.
but u get good odds with drawy hand like dis, if u go 3way/4way to the flop (1 alrdy limped UTG and BB always calls behind when BB closes action), im never aiming to play other flops then straight/flush drawy flops or some really good flops for me... and i donked OOP OTF to squeeze it and in case they just call , they will get in trouble when i hit my J , and i did, but unfortunately he had the only hand that could possibly beat me , so kinda unlucky for me
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:49 AM
(#9)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
but u get good odds with drawy hand like dis
The problem with playing high-card draws like this when someone else has raised is that high cards often complete draws for other players and K9 is pretty low on the list of hands that connect well with broadway flops. You might flop two pair and someone has a higher two pair, hit a straight and someone has a higher one, hit a flush and face an A-high flush. This is why hands like 87s or 98s are often easier to play, if you hit, your opponent is likely to have missed and vice versa.

In general it's tough to get paid for monster hands out of position as any aggressive line you take looks strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
im never aiming to play other flops then straight/flush drawy flops or some really good flops for me
Fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
and i donked OOP OTF to squeeze it
Not fine. When you have a plan - stick to it!
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:57 AM
(#10)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
[QUOTE=NaturoSasuki;473137] im never aiming to play other flops then straight/flush drawy flops or some really good flops for me... and i donked OOP OTF to squeeze it and in case they just call , they will get in trouble when i hit my J
/QUOTE]


Please stop calling your hand drawy and stop thinking it is a good flop, it is not.

YOU ARE CHASING GUTSHOTS....and even then if you hit one of your 4 outs there are dozens and dozens and dozens of hands that leave you drawing dead.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 10:46 AM
(#11)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
The problem with playing high-card draws like this when someone else has raised is that high cards often complete draws for other players and K9 is pretty low on the list of hands that connect well with broadway flops. You might flop two pair and someone has a higher two pair, hit a straight and someone has a higher one, hit a flush and face an A-high flush. This is why hands like 87s or 98s are often easier to play, if you hit, your opponent is likely to have missed and vice versa.

In general it's tough to get paid for monster hands out of position as any aggressive line you take looks strong.



Fine.



Not fine. When you have a plan - stick to it!
i didnt have much of plan , plan was to hit flop 3way, some rly good flops (i.e. or 7 8 6 with FD/backdoor FD), not twopair (ofc i can get away from it, cuz sets will be so commmon here) ... i know there arent a lot of such flops, but thats why im preflop-calling it from "postflop UTG" with plan to squeeze cuz UTG squeezes looks so stronk and position squeezes looks so weak(when everyone checked).... if squeeze not succesful i give up... and just btw i get away with squeezes a lot even on a drawy board like this

i definitely didnt plan to checkcall , especially to checkcall against FD , so i just planned to take it down right here or give up

but yes i can agree that it is a spewy and problematic spot for me , especially against AK on this flop , so i will try to not do it anymoar ))

Last edited by NaturoSasuki; Thu Dec 26, 2013 at 10:55 AM..
 

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