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24s UTG , laggy style, dun h8 me

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24s UTG , laggy style, dun h8 me - Thu Dec 26, 2013, 09:05 AM
(#1)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
nice start of today session... 8% suckout
i know that some of u would think that i got wut i deserved,

but i like to play this hand but especially only from UTG for many reasons:
for them to 3bet my UTG-raise they often will mostly with AA,KK and especially like here, their raise-size gives me info
cuz they never put me on such hand, plus they always will be so comfortable with their hand on this boards like 2 2 X or 2 4 7 with for example even their pocket 88's so i will often stack them off

though i wasnt getting greatest odds to call preflop ( 1:10) to call to stack him off , wut i often will if i hit boards like
2 4 X
3 5 A
2 2 X
4 4 X
Xh Xh Xh

or still have many outs OTFs
3 5 X
A 3 2
A 4 3
Xh Xh Xx

 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:01 PM
(#2)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I won't be a broken record about PF opening ranges, you've already heard our advice, whether you choose to follow it is up to you.

However I do want to say something about calling the 3Bet. Your preceived opening range from UTG is typically a fairly tight range. The SB is the worst position to be at on the table. So for him to put in a large 3Bet should give him a pretty narrow and strong range, maybe even as tight as JJ+, AKs.

Bearing this in mind the 3Bet is a clear fold - any other play is significantly -EV. In fact I actually prefer 4Betting to calling as this looks even stronger for the reasons that I just talked about.

The problem with 42s compared to hands like 98s is that they are not connected, making it harder to make a straight, they are really low cards so your pair/two pair hands can often get counterfeited, your flushes are always really low and vulnerable and it's hard to make a straight because the only possibilities are a 6-high or 5-high straight.

Anyway you flop basically the nuts and you played the flop fine. His range is heavily weighted to overpairs which he's never folding so raising is completely fine. You were unlucky to get sucked out on.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:18 PM
(#3)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Calling such a big 3 bet pre is just horrible. He is basically telling you he has a strong hand. The chances of you flopping the set is so remote it's not worth mentioning. With 42s though you would normally expect the vast majority of times to have to be prepared to go down 2 or 3 streets. Coupled with his strength pre, it makes the calling of his 3 bet pre close to insanity. Or in other words:

Massive Leak.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:30 PM
(#4)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
So for him to put in a large 3Bet should give him a pretty narrow and strong range, maybe even as tight as JJ+, AKs.
Yez, so thats why im never 4beting him

Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
Bearing this in mind the 3Bet is a clear fold - any other play is significantly -EV. In fact I actually prefer 4Betting to calling as this looks even stronger for the reasons that I just talked about.
yez it was kinda close call for me though cuz i would like him to have more chips behind , but i got your point, though i dont think 4bet-fold will get u anywhere , when he showed dis strength...
4bet-fold will just spew money around since u will be getting 5bet all the time in this situation
Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
The problem with 42s compared to hands like 98s is that they are not connected, making it harder to make a straight, they are really low cards so your pair/two pair hands can often get counterfeited, your flushes are always really low and vulnerable and it's hard to make a straight because the only possibilities are a 6-high or 5-high straight.
Yez, true story bro, but firstly he would need big read on me and do this big reraising with weak hands that dominates my small straight/flush, so as u said earlier , he would have JJ+/AK so only AKs possible (im not making same line if he just call preflop or makes smaller 3bet)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
Anyway you flop basically the nuts and you played the flop fine. His range is heavily weighted to overpairs which he's never folding so raising is completely fine. You were unlucky to get sucked out on.
yea, just kinda wanted to show how i roll everytime im ahead

Last edited by NaturoSasuki; Thu Dec 26, 2013 at 12:33 PM..
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:30 PM
(#5)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
Calling such a big 3 bet pre is just horrible. He is basically telling you he has a strong hand. The chances of you flopping the set is so remote it's not worth mentioning. With 42s though you would normally expect the vast majority of times to have to be prepared to go down 2 or 3 streets. Coupled with his strength pre, it makes the calling of his 3 bet pre close to insanity. Or in other words:

Massive Leak.
^^^^^ ++++++++++++++++++
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:42 PM
(#6)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
Calling such a big 3 bet pre is just horrible. He is basically telling you he has a strong hand. The chances of you flopping the set is so remote it's not worth mentioning. With 42s though you would normally expect the vast majority of times to have to be prepared to go down 2 or 3 streets. Coupled with his strength pre, it makes the calling of his 3 bet pre close to insanity. Or in other words:

Massive Leak.
though it might be a leak but not too massive, epsecially if u do it only once in a time, not all the time .. (ya know, to mix ur play)
i have/had much worse leaks like bluffing to AI in bad spots for 150BB ,or overplaying my KK/2nd-best-hands to AI in deep-stacked hand... when the board comes like those Q 9 5 T etc...

so i wouldnt call calling 1:10 odds to stack him off for bonus .70c a massive leak... though ofc it is a masive leak if u call this much everytime, cuz it rly was close decision even for me

Last edited by NaturoSasuki; Thu Dec 26, 2013 at 12:47 PM..
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:45 PM
(#7)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
I think I'm gonna steal/use your idea of making a move at UTG with a random low hand just to confuse people on furthers streets if I hit the flop big but I'm not going to call a 3bet from SB
4betting would be a bit too wild for me but might work pretty often, but not againt KK.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:50 PM
(#8)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkleefstra View Post
I think I'm gonna steal/use your idea of making a move at UTG with a random low hand just to confuse people on furthers streets if I hit the flop big but I'm not going to call a 3bet from SB
4betting would be a bit too wild for me but might work pretty often, but not againt KK.
yay, im glad ima helpful though especially if he just calls and not 3bets u... then u r especially going for troubles... cuz when he just calls u, he will have exactly everything that will dominate u, if u make your hand.. so my play can kinda confuse u if u no understand it well *lulz*

though on the other hand, if u hit botom two pair like w/ 24 OTF 2 4 7, he might go fancy with his JJ or 88 which he just called preflop(cuz watch out , we got UTG opener over here) and to ensure being overpair OTF and lead and think he is ahead

Last edited by NaturoSasuki; Thu Dec 26, 2013 at 12:54 PM..
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:50 PM
(#9)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkleefstra View Post
I think I'm gonna steal/use your idea of making a move at UTG with a random low hand just to confuse people on furthers streets if I hit the flop big but I'm not going to call a 3bet from SB
4betting would be a bit too wild for me but might work pretty often, but not againt KK.

Who are you going to confuse if no one is taking any notice.

Last edited by mike2198; Thu Dec 26, 2013 at 01:12 PM..
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:57 PM
(#10)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post

so i wouldnt call calling 1:10 odds to stack him off for bonus .70c a massive leak... though ofc it is a masive leak if u call this much everytime, cuz it rly was close decision even for me

The odds of you flopping a flush: 1 in 118 times

The odds on flopping a straight: 1 in 101 times

The odds of you flopping twips: 1 in 73 times

The odds on flopping 2 pair: 1 in 49 times


Please don't try and tell me it isn't a massive leak.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 12:59 PM
(#11)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Who are you going to confuse if know one is taking any notice.
did u mean that noone noticing that UTG raisez are tighter?
yes , that can be true at these stakes, but also dont, iz villain-dependent cuz not just stupid players play this limit , though some semi-stupid does
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:04 PM
(#12)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
The odds of you flopping a flush: 1 in 118 times

The odds on flopping a straight: 1 in 101 times

The odds of you flopping twips: 1 in 73 times

The odds on flopping 2 pair: 1 in 49 times


Please don't try and tell me it isn't a massive leak.
im just saying that there are worse leak than that , that some of us (me) do
and also once u missed twips (yay nice one! ) / FD+gutshot/OESD , twopairs, than u have an easy fold..
but when u have hand like JJ or 99 here, it will just makes u confused that u dont know if u ahead or not, if he haz dat AK/AQ or not.. and u will end up calling hiz jam(or jam urself) in half of the times, and still he will catch it by the turn/river....
though in my case if i hit 2pair he still have like 30% with overpair but just sayin...
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:19 PM
(#13)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki;473202[B
]im just saying that there are worse leak than that , that some of us (me) do [/B]

OMG if true
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:39 PM
(#14)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
though i wasnt getting greatest odds to call preflop ( 1:10) to call to stack him off , wut i often will if i hit boards like
2 4 X
3 5 A
2 2 X
4 4 X
Xh Xh Xh
You're getting odds of 10:1, but you'll have a one of those good flops much less than 9% of the time. In other words, you're taking a bet with a negative expectation. You're not going to win with 42s more than 9% of the time, so just fold pre and save your money for better spots.

If you want to call 3-bets, then do it with hands that flop well, not with junk like 42 that flops horrendously.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:40 PM
(#15)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
OMG if true
i haz my leaks , i iz no so perfect az u
btw u inserted newline inside of [B] so it not workz lulz
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:43 PM
(#16)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
did u mean that noone noticing that UTG raisez are tighter?
yes , that can be true at these stakes, but also dont, iz villain-dependent cuz not just stupid players play this limit , though some semi-stupid does

No just tell me this how is opening 24s UTG going to confuse any player taking any notice?
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:43 PM
(#17)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
You're getting odds of 10:1, but you'll have a one of those good flops much less than 9% of the time. In other words, you're taking a bet with a negative expectation. You're not going to win with 42s more than 9% of the time, so just fold pre and save your money for better spots.

If you want to call 3-bets, then do it with hands that flop well, not with junk like 42 that flops horrendously.
ok lets say that now i know i shouldnt do it , but once in a time, isnt it good to do so ? so enemy will happily stack off when he's drawing almost dead? (and cuz he wont put me on such hand )
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:47 PM
(#18)
NaturoSasuki's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
No just tell me this how is opening 24s UTG going to confuse any player taking any notice?
i dun understand question.. he doesnt know that im 24s and it wont confuse him ofc...though confused may be villain when he jams and i turn over my wide range and ahead
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:49 PM
(#19)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
ok lets say that now i know i shouldnt do it , but once in a time, isnt it good to do so ? so enemy will happily stack off when he's drawing almost dead? (and cuz he wont put me on such hand )
I think Arty covered that, your not getting odds to do so and you will just lose money in the long run and what about when you get someone flat IP and you dont get 3bet what you going to do now lose even more money.
 
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Thu Dec 26, 2013, 01:52 PM
(#20)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturoSasuki View Post
i dun understand question.. he doesnt know that im 24s and it wont confuse him ofc...though confused may be villain when he jams and i turn over my wide range and ahead
Yh your turn over that 24s once in a blue moon and your have to fold and lose 90c every other time and villain wont be confused even if you flip over 24s he will laugh and 3bet you with a wider range and take even more money from you because your keep looking to flop the world in 3bet pots without the odds to do so.
 

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