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Hotter $2.20, 99 UTG with M=10

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Hotter $2.20, 99 UTG with M=10 - Sun Dec 29, 2013, 08:22 AM
(#1)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496


We were well into the money in the Hotter $2.20 and I was one of the big stacks at our table with more than 25BB and an M number of just over 10.

I was really confused as to what the best play was here with 99 UTG.

I first considered open-folding, which might be the optimal play.

However I felt 99 was a strong hand if I could get all in with one of the shorties, I'd be a favourite against their calling ranges.

Of course the problem are the two big stacks on my left. I didn't really want to minbet and have them come over the top, so despite my fairly large stack I opted to shove.

FYI I wasn't concerned at all about laddering, I was aiming to get to the FT. Was this the right way to go about it?

Last edited by spand42; Sun Dec 29, 2013 at 08:27 AM.. Reason: Posting a hand would be helpful...
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:02 AM
(#2)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
I feel under qualified to reply, but at worst I stand to learn from it

I think that's a really interesting spot.. for sure it is a huge amount to open shove and yes there is always that fact that when one of the bigstacks does snap call you know they are usually turning over better but, with only two players at the table where that is a factor.. and because you have stated that you were shooting for the top without laddering worries. and were happy to take action from any of the others..

typically that shove looks like a slick type hand so it might further encourage one of the shortstacks to call off with the exact range you want them too, and the opposite could apply to the biggstacks, even if they were to range you as weaker from your shove, they would still (I think) need to tighten up their calling range, unless they have already shown themselves happy to flip lighter for huge pots, and they should also be able to see that you were trying to encourage action from one of the shortstacks..
and this is where I might fall very flat but I make the odds of either of them having TT-AA approx. 18/1 coupled. (could be way off there but your good at working that stuff out so I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong)
so on balance I can certainly see how you saw open shoving as a viable option.

Last edited by stix144; Sun Dec 29, 2013 at 10:40 AM..
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:30 AM
(#3)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Hey Spand,
My opinion is your stack size is a little too big to open shove,
I would raise to 2 to 2.5 x BB and reassess what happens by time it gets back to me.
If all hell breaks loose I would fold, but if a lone shorty shoves I would call.
Some were in between I would flip a coin and jam on tails and fold if heads come up.
But hey what do I know
Good Luck
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:56 AM
(#4)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Hello Spand,
I don't shove 20bb's, raise/call their shove seems better for me , but not big stack. 20bb Shove calling range would be much tighter .
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:58 AM
(#5)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Really hate the shove here to be honest, risking tourney life when there is no need. If we get called by a medium/large stack the very best we can hope for is a flip, most of the time we will be crushed.

I would rather bet around 21500, and only call raises/shoves if they player has less than 60k or is the BB.
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:02 PM
(#6)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckkky View Post
Hey Spand,
My opinion is your stack size is a little too big to open shove
That seems to be the consensus so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckkky View Post
I would raise to 2 to 2.5 x BB and reassess what happens by time it gets back to me.
I disagree with the last bit of this. I think if I'm going to choose whether to raise or not, I should already have decided who's shoves I am going to call and fold to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danutz75 View Post
Really hate the shove here to be honest, risking tourney life when there is no need.
Fair point.

The other part of my thought process was that I didnt really fancy playing a flop with one of the big stacks OOP in case they just called, which was another contributing factor to my shove.
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:24 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,479
(Head Trainer)
Hi Andy,

I am not a fan of shoving for 27bb's from UTG here with 99, I think it's too deep as well. I would open for a min-raise (my standard at this level) and go from there. My plan is to call shoves from P7, 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5, and make a judgement call based on any reads vs. players 8, 9.

If 8/9 are not aggressive 3-bettors then folding can be fine, to exercise some stack preservation. If they are, then we have a nice stack size to 4b rip with. We make it (or 2.2 or whatever), 9 makes it 6x, now when it comes back to us we can rip... we're still a bit deep for this but have massive fold equity raise/4b jamming from UTG and have build quite an additional reward into the pot when the fold, picking up not just the blinds/antes but also a 3b. We could also get flatted or 3b by 8 or 9 and have one of the shorties jam, allowing us to re-jam again with massive fold equity and force the big stacks to have a big hand or leave their 3b dead in the pot.


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