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JTs - Sun Dec 29, 2013, 11:41 AM
(#1)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485


What do you make of this guys turn jam, im thinking he has something like KdTx and hes trying to free roll me, i thought it wasnt worth the risk to maybe chop a best so folded.

Is there any other hands i should be raising here other than 2 pair sets and the flopped nuts?

I think any flush draw is a flat on this board but isnt there something you should be raising here so my hand isnt face up, which is why he probably jammed the turn thinking i cant fold a set or a straight.
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:24 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Is there any other hands i should be raising here other than 2 pair sets and the flopped nuts?
That's actually quite a lot of combos, so your hand isn't exactly "face up" if you raise.

and (pair+ royal flush gutshot) should be strong enough to raise on the flop, but I think they are probably calling hands in this spot.


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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 03:46 PM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
That's actually quite a lot of combos, so your hand isn't exactly "face up" if you raise.

and (pair+ royal flush gutshot) should be strong enough to raise on the flop, but I think they are probably calling hands in this spot.
Yh i think i like to just flat those flush draw hands as well, what i mean by face up is that if he knows i can only have two pair sets and straights on the flop then that turn card would be an extremely good card to push me off my hand especially if i happened to be like 300bb deep and i happened to have put in say like 120bb in on the flop and turn.

I doubt he was bluffing here i think the worst hand he can have is Kd Tx , do you think he can raise JJ there though maybe not jam but raise it because he beats my AK, AQ and QK and would only be owning himself vs QQ and he could just be thinking i don't want to give AK and KQ with Kd a free card so im moving all in.

The only thing is he snap jammed the turn so he wasn't doing much thinking about what i can have sure he might know i had 2 pair and what not but he cant of been thinking about what diamonds i can have.

I dont know if i like my fold now especially as he cant have many flush draws i just didnt want to risk the rest of my stack and he was free rolling me.

What you reckon should i have called or folded, dunno what i should be doing with my sets either at least sets have outs to the flush.
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:44 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
Four-card straight/flush boards are theoretically good boards to bluff, as they are so damn scary, but I think that making a move on the turn here would be pretty bad, given the flop action.
I doubt he's trying to "push you off" your hand with a bluff on the turn. After all, you raised the flop, repping a very strong hand on this heavy board. He bet-called, which means he probably has a pair+draw. With AJ/KJ/AK, I doubt he raises the turn, because both draws got there. Villain has to know that you have JT (and maybe AT) in your range, along with sets. He's not bluffing, as you pointed out. I think AT/KT is most likely. He's probably shoving precisely so that sets don't have the odds to try and boat up. Occasionally, he'll have the royal with , but I suspect he might slowplay that, figuring to get all in on the river if the board pairs.
JJ seems very unlikely to me. For a start, there's only one combo of JJ available. But does bet-call on the flop? I doubt it.
I think your original read is quite likely to be correct. Villain is probably freerolling you with Broadway + flush draw, if he hasn't already got you drawing dead with a flush.


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Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Sun Dec 29, 2013 at 05:44 PM..
 
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Sun Dec 29, 2013, 04:57 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Actually yh your bang on there he should be checking Kx and JJ so ATo makes alot of sense, yh i like my fold now even better.
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:51 AM
(#6)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
A few things:

We shouldn't be raising two pair on this flop. That's definitely going to be a mistake for a number of reasons, even AK is not strong enough to raise this flop.

I don't mind betting turn, but we should bet to fold to a shove. It is an easy fold. At best we are chopping, at worst we are drawing dead. Sometimes we are taking a negative freeroll. Either way the math is going to add up badly when we chop with bottom of villain's range.

I don't mind just calling flop and checking back this turn if we raise flop. Ostensibly villain would three-bet a decent number of hands like AA/KK/QQ. That means we don't need to worry so much about protection on the turn. Also, it is very hard to get value on a four-straight. So maybe we should just check back and bet river for value if checked to.

I think actually if you are targeting this villain's inability to fold on this board, you should raise bigger on the flop. But if they are a good player, I would just call and call bad turns, raising blank turns.
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 12:08 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
A few things:

We shouldn't be raising two pair on this flop. That's definitely going to be a mistake for a number of reasons, even AK is not strong enough to raise this flop.

I don't mind betting turn, but we should bet to fold to a shove. It is an easy fold. At best we are chopping, at worst we are drawing dead. Sometimes we are taking a negative freeroll. Either way the math is going to add up badly when we chop with bottom of villain's range.

I don't mind just calling flop and checking back this turn if we raise flop. Ostensibly villain would three-bet a decent number of hands like AA/KK/QQ. That means we don't need to worry so much about protection on the turn. Also, it is very hard to get value on a four-straight. So maybe we should just check back and bet river for value if checked to.

I think actually if you are targeting this villain's inability to fold on this board, you should raise bigger on the flop. But if they are a good player, I would just call and call bad turns, raising blank turns.
Wow i thought two pair would be a raise for value vs a pair and a gutter type hands, so if i should flat vs a good player with a straight how should i play my sets?

What about two pair then like top two should i just call on the flop and raise blanks as well? Folding to a 3bet.

Last edited by mike2198; Mon Dec 30, 2013 at 12:15 PM..
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:35 PM
(#8)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
I would just call down with my AK. Call flop/turn but fold river with KQ and probably the same with AQ.
 

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