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Top Pair Marginal Kicker Facing Big 2nd Barrel

Top Pair Marginal Kicker Facing Big 2nd Barrel - Sun Dec 29, 2013, 02:26 PM
DemzMahChipz's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 67
Villain is a loose-passive type player who hasn't raised a lot preflop, but raised first in 40% of his opportunities to do so. (Which I didn't notice at first or I may have considered a 3bet here preflop). This is a spot that I really hate though since it looks like I could be on the flush draw, and I think the 2nd barrel could be a protection bet from a weaker kicker or even something like KJ a lot. I folded to the turn cbet, but not sure if it's the right fold. Villain had been extremely passive post flop AFq = 20, AF = 0.

Sun Dec 29, 2013, 05:31 PM
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I like the way you played this hand.

I think you have to call on the button and on the flop when you spike your ace.

Against most opponent types I would call a 2nd barrel and re-evaluate on the river. However if this guy is usually passive post-flop (you didn't give his CBet stats so I'm just going on the stats you did give) and he's firing two very large bets on a scary board for any other hand than Ax or JJ, I'd be concerned.

Therefore I like the fold, keep a good stack for the rest of the tourney and you've likely dodged an AK sized bullet.

Last edited by spand42; Fri Jan 10, 2014 at 06:18 PM..
Sun Dec 29, 2013, 09:18 PM
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
If you won't bet the Ace, why call pre?
Fri Jan 10, 2014, 12:05 PM
MyNumber7's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 36
I don't like the way you played here. I don't say that fold on the turn was bad move here but I also don't see the reason to fold it. You looked weak preflop, you played weak on the flop like drawing for flush and you were priced out on the turn. I see a few lines of play here:

I 3B or 2.5B his preflop raise in possition showing him strenght. If he reraises me I can easy let it go cause it most likely he has :A:K or monster pairs.

Lets say I call him. Flop comes with flush draw. We could expect him most of the time to Cbet here. He cbets here 2/3 of the pot. Pretty strong bet. For me it looks like protection bet with any or . So what our plan? If I'll call here I get no information about his hand, if I reraise and he shoots back with rereraise then its clear we are behind. He puts pressure on you and by calling or checking you gain no information and decisions becomes even harder. If you are calling on the flop you should be ready for another big barrel on the turn. The turn is and now you must face another big bet. Its 6/7 of the pot. No way he has pocket JJ here. No way he has fullhouse here. He still wants you to pay big, can we expect that with AK or AQ on paired board? Yes, unless he thinks that you have a flush draw and dont wants you to get it cheaply. AJ, A10, A9s IMO are the hands he can have.

Ofcourse, I can analyze here for hours but what I want to say is: you had no plan here and by not gaining information you are facing hard decisions and probably are making mistakes.

There is a saying in poker that is always better raise or fold, than check or call

Good luck,

Last edited by MyNumber7; Fri Jan 10, 2014 at 12:10 PM..
Fri Jan 10, 2014, 02:10 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,336
Looks fine to me. The second barrel is strong, and on a board like this the villain is unlikely to be making it with a worse hand than yours. Aces with lower kickers are chopping vs AT anyway.
I see no point in "raising for info", and we can't raise for value, because nothing worse calls, except perhaps Axs in spades, which is freerolling, and just might just shove on you.

Bracelet Winner
Fri Jan 10, 2014, 05:53 PM
Marc Rae's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 505
Looks like the first round or 2 in a big overlay tourney. Although villain has been seen raising 40%, if it's the first time you've seen him/her, be mindful that running into good cards in the first two rounds can bring your vpip up 40-60% easily... and factor in if those none hands haven't gone to showdown also.

So to lose near 20% of starting stack on TPGK in the first 10-15min never feels good.

I understand that the 6 peeling off makes it unlikely he hit a set of 6 on the flop. JJ still is in his range, especially if villain puts you on an A, I'd be inclined to hope the stronger A's will call here too.. especially in the early stages. Personally I'd be betting a little lower to keep them in the pot.

But I think it may be a different story if the turn peeled a card with some equity for you, but it's not the case.

Although there are some chop possibilities.. it shouldn't factor to call a 2/3 pot. (not saying Arty would either)

At this point youré bluff catching if you call on the turn... then you need to plan to bluff catch the river here. Definitely need reads to do call 2 more streets I think.

With bigger aces and JJ in his possible range.. but with no other reads IMO good fold, as you'd be likely be facing a big river bet, any very likely that no card will improve your holdings.

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