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5nl zoom, KK 4-way flop, too tight a fold?

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5nl zoom, KK 4-way flop, too tight a fold? - Mon Dec 30, 2013, 09:39 AM
(#1)
kisobel's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
My first post on here so please be gentle

I raised KK UTG+1 and got 3 callers. On the flop the SB donk leads and the BB calls. I have VPIP/PFR stats on the BB (10/4) but not enough hands for meaningful stats on the other 2.

Two questions - I'm thinking I should have raised this flop instead of calling? I didn't probably out of fear because it was such a big lead out from the SB. And was I right to fold kings to the reraise and shove? With two opponents showing strength I figured that I was probably against a set and a strong draw.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 10:52 AM
(#2)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
Hi kiso,

first the easy part, your fold to the raise and reraise on the flop is fine, you are pretty much always up against two pair or a set here and the rare occasions when both villains are on some combo draws like KJ of heart you are not in a very dominating shape either. So most the times your are way behind and some rare times you are a little ahead = no fun.

the tougher decision was between calling and rasing once belle donked out for potsize and execution called. Its even tougher of a spot since exe and you are deepstacked and there is also another player left to act. I dont think calling and reevaluating the turn or the futher action on the flop is bad here, the other option is raising to about 1.80 and calling a shove of belle of course but folding to a rereraise from exe or felipe.

Without some substantial reads I am not completely sure which option I would prefer, we only now a little bit about exe and that is that exe is tight passive pre but he can still have a lot of draws or made hands here imo since he got to see a fourway pot pretty cheap preflop and that widenend his range.

all in all I think your line was fine, lets see what the others say :-)
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 11:10 AM
(#3)
Danutz75's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 273
Think this is a good example of where limping in with KK can be effective. By definition zoom tables are aggy so if you limp utg/utg+1 you would expect a raise which you can then repop with the intention to isolate if multi-way.

I really strongly dislike the call on the flop and would be raising to around $2.00 here.

As it happens you flatted, and once it comes around to me again I am shoving. It gives you the chance to create a decent side pot if called which is good insurance, with a fair chance you are way ahead anyway.
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 01:59 PM
(#4)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi kisobel! Welcome to the forums. We are friendly here. If you post real questions, you will get real answers

I would not recommend limping from ep on Zoom, especially at 5NL or lower. We dont want to get a strong of limpers. Moreover, as a general rule, build the pot early and often with your strong hands. I like making a 3bb raise from ep, just like you did.



On the flop, I like being careful not to overplay single pairs. However, this seems like a good spot to raise. Many players would check-raise a set in this spot rather than lead out. I expect to see one pair hands and draw more often from the donk bet. More importantly, if we call, we encourage the other villain to stay in the hand. This board offers draws and a lot of Ax, one pair good kicker hands that are in the other players ranges. My experience is that if we call on the flop we will probably have to call again on the turn without really knowing where we stand. Since our hand is unlikely to improve, but probably best at the moment, I prefer to raise, as almightybald said, to about 180. Hopefully the villain yet to act as well as the caller will fold allowing us to isolate the short stacked sb with the intention of getting all in.

As played, call-folding to so much action is good. Having "just a pair" isn't worth risking your whole stack against so much action on this board. As almightybald points out, you will rarely be a clear favorite.

GL at the tables and welcome to PSO!

Roland GTX
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:03 PM
(#5)
kisobel's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Thanks all for your advice.
 
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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:15 PM
(#6)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Just to add my 2 cents, I actually prefer folding to calling OTF. Playing an overpair passively like this in a multiway pot is bound to lead to trouble as there is likely to be a lot of action on later streets that you are not well equipped to deal with.

Therefore I much prefer a raise OTF and make it quite big, say to $2+ to try and get it heads up.
 

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