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25NL 6Max Zoom

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25NL 6Max Zoom - Thu Jan 02, 2014, 12:48 PM
(#1)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496


Unknown villain.

I know people can sometimes go a bit crazy in the blinds, so my plan was to check/call two streets and then probably check/fold the river if he CBets a third time. I assume this bit is OK?

However the river comes and I hit the jackpot. I think leading out has to be the right play as there's no guarantee that villain will CBet so the question is what size to choose. What do you guys think?
 
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Thu Jan 02, 2014, 03:39 PM
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Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
I don't like calling 3 bet OOP, if you know his 3bet range , fold or 4bet and get it in OTR I would x/r as he represents a lot of strength on two streets I expect to see QQ+ .and bet fold with full house ? what hand did you put him OTR? as played x/r OTR
 
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Thu Jan 02, 2014, 08:36 PM
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powerdegre's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shichi-77 View Post
I don't like calling 3 bet OOP, if you know his 3bet range , fold or 4bet and get it in OTR I would x/r as he represents a lot of strength on two streets I expect to see QQ+ .and bet fold with full house ? what hand did you put him OTR? as played x/r OTR
Being VS unknown, wouldn't call be worth all the same for set mining? Obviously if you're set mining you don't go fishing after with Jacks.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2014, 12:12 AM
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PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
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Preflop in a blindbattle at these stakes I feel like JJ is at the bottom of my 4-bet/calling range against an unknown villain. Calling seems fine even though you're OOP. Villain does give you a great price so the actual value for 4-betting is a bit diminished by that as there is more money to play out.

Postflop I like check/calling 2 streets and giving villain some rope to double barrel/bluff you.

That being said if you call turn figuring that you will be good here often enough you should check river and have him either follow through with another bullet or valuebet too thinly with top pair or better so you can check/jam for value.

I guess leading here will no accomplish much for you as it folds out his bluffs and even gives him a reason to consider folding some top pairs/overpairs.


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Fri Jan 03, 2014, 02:01 AM
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birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
If we aren't 4betting here BvB we won't have a wide enough value range to represent bluffs with.

River seems like a thin check/shove spot? Could also check/call pending sizing.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2014, 04:35 AM
(#6)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
If we aren't 4betting here BvB we won't have a wide enough value range to represent bluffs with.
I considered 4Betting and playing for stacks, but I just felt that flatting kept his range potentially super-wide so I could extract value from a wide range of hands even though I'm OOP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSO-xflixx View Post
That being said if you call turn figuring that you will be good here often enough you should check river and have him either follow through with another bullet or valuebet too thinly with top pair or better so you can check/jam for value.

I guess leading here will no accomplish much for you as it folds out his bluffs and even gives him a reason to consider folding some top pairs/overpairs.
I guess Jd isn't that scary a card if villain is actually value betting with say top pair, so like you, birdayy and shichi-77 said, x/shove river probably makes most sense.
 
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Fri Jan 03, 2014, 12:42 PM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
I like check/shoving here, but I feel like villain is going to check down a lot of his showdown value hands on this run out. Another option is to lead with a small blocking bet, something like $4, which will get called very often by the SD value hands that would have checked behind a lot, and leaves the door open for his air to bluff raise us since it looks like we aren't wanting to call a big bet on this coordinating river card when we block bet it.


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Fri Jan 03, 2014, 05:23 PM
(#8)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
If we aren't 4betting here BvB we won't have a wide enough value range to represent bluffs with.
Agreed.

I'm notoriously un-aggressive pre-flop (I don't 3-bet JJ half as often as most regs), but in a BvB situation, I'm 4-betting all day and fist-pump calling a shove.
Calling 3-bets OOP is not my idea of fun, especially with jacks. You're often ahead pre, but the board can get ugly and villain could barrel you off the best hand, or at least give you a couple of big decisions. With KK+, you might try trapping (especially if you think villain will fold to a 4-bet) but jacks are too vulnerable to play this way, imo.


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