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$2.20 Sunday Storm Satellite, K4s in BB, shove 2.4bb stack or check?

$2.20 Sunday Storm Satellite, K4s in BB, shove 2.4bb stack or check? - Fri Jan 03, 2014, 08:00 PM
CanuckMonkey's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 185
A lost flip against a slightly shorter stack a few hands earlier left me crippled with 2.4bb remaining. I picked up K4s on my big blind, and got two limpers (very generous of them to not force me into a decision for all my chips before the flop).

At this point I am sitting 13th/13 remaining, and 7 places get paid (6 getting Sunday Storm tickets). I am pretty confident I would call all-in in this spot, especially against only 1-2 opponents, but with the chance to see the flop for free, should I check and then shove a favourable flop, or shove now?

I figure I have no fold equity anyway if I shove now, but more experienced minds may be able to lead me to a new perspective/new skills.


-- CanuckMonkey

Last edited by CanuckMonkey; Fri Jan 03, 2014 at 08:01 PM.. Reason: Spelling
Fri Jan 03, 2014, 11:22 PM
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,861
Hi CanuckMonkey!

Very interesting spot. What reads did you have on the opps, especially.. do they normally limp?

My first thought was to shove, but I was discussing the hand with Dave and he brought up a good point to me that could make checking/shove the flop viable too.

If I shove, I'm most likely going to have to face 2 opps, since I have basically no fold equity. However, the opps won't get to see if they hit a part of the flop. Also, if villain 6 normally doesn't limp, they may re-shove to try and isolate me and even if I'm up against a better hand, I'm still better off against one opp.

On the other hand, if I check, if the opps miss and I shove, they have a chance to maybe fold (without a read, no clue if they actually would or not). The problem here though is that if either opp hits any part of the board, there's no way they're folding.

Another factor here is, that if I'm willing to call a shove, then I'm better off getting it in first and with this being the case, I'm putting them in preflop.

It's a spot though that IMO, a case can be made for playing it either way.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


6 Time Bracelet Winner

Sat Jan 04, 2014, 04:43 AM
ouchbadbeat's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 347
you're coming last, and by shoving pre you will force the opponents to risk more of their stack - you may even get a fold from the SB

both players are likely to be fish, given that in satellites like this you really want to be playing a tight aggressive game and picking your spots to be loose aggressive. passive play is not recommended

so i think shove pre is a good idea - you are coming last and need to pick up chips, and if you do win you will have punished the other players for limpcalling, your stack increases while theirs decreases
and if you bust, then it's not a huge deal because your current situation is already as bad as it gets - you either lose here or you triple up and own the silly calling stations later on
Sat Jan 04, 2014, 06:41 AM
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I think you're so desperate that you just have to shove here and try and get lucky to basically quadruple up.

You don't want to risk hitting a Kxx or even KKx flop and have one of the other two guys fold when they've completely whiffed.
Sat Jan 04, 2014, 09:49 AM
CanuckMonkey's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 185
Thanks to everyone for the comments, very interesting discussion and points raised. In the actual hand I checked, and still felt that this was best when I posted here, but now my preference has shifted to a shove pre-flop, which I think is one of the best things that can come from hand analysis (an honest shift in play style, even if it is a minor one in an arguable spot).

Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Very interesting spot. What reads did you have on the opps, especially.. do they normally limp?
I hadn't played enough with them to have any kind of solid read at the time, just 14 hands on Villain_6 and 20 on Villain_7. For what it's worth, Villain_6 was playing 19/0 and Villain_7 32/5. I had no reads on how either would respond to aggression pre- or post-flop.

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