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So.....how you like your slowplay now? Huh?

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So.....how you like your slowplay now? Huh? - Sat Jan 04, 2014, 09:17 AM
(#1)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2014, 07:11 PM
(#2)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
I like the way you played this, including your overbet on the river.
I don't like the way villain played this, including his overbet on the river.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2014, 07:51 PM
(#3)
Quaquaversal's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 57
I really just wanted to see pocket jacks in his hand
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2014, 09:12 PM
(#4)
herbalerv's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 217
SilverStar
neither of you played the hand great, I guess your bet size is clever if it is specifically designed to get a jack to pay off but still not a fan! Awful raise by him obviously. donk fest hand
 
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Sat Jan 04, 2014, 11:57 PM
(#5)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
I like the way you played this, including your overbet on the river.
I don't like the way villain played this, including his overbet on the river.
Thanks Arty. I wanted to play a big pot with a big hand. It worked out better than I had hoped. Course, if he had one of the few hands hands that beat me that would have sucked but was prepared for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaquaversal View Post
I really just wanted to see pocket jacks in his hand
Yes, cause I would have posted that in this section if he had JJ. That would make a whole lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbalerv View Post
neither of you played the hand great, I guess your bet size is clever if it is specifically designed to get a jack to pay off but still not a fan! Awful raise by him obviously. donk fest hand
What else was the bet size designed for?

It was a tiny pot. I was intent on growing it with what I figured to be the best hand. I expected a fold to any sort of bet (EDIT: Just to add, if he had next to nothing and was just spewy), but, crucially, villains at 2nl pay off over bets with much worse hands quite often too. So, if he was going to call, why not make it worth it. If he had one of the hands that beat me then that sucks but he obviously shouldn't have those hands the way it plays out.

As for not playing it great. Are you 3betting pre with a view to cbetting flop? Betting turn bigger? Making a standard size bet on river? Just saying it's a donkfest hand is vague.

Last edited by bhoylegend; Sun Jan 05, 2014 at 07:12 AM..
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 09:42 AM
(#6)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Noteworthy points:
Posting in the brag section, in particular with a heading like that (which comes over as a bit distasteful, for a place of learning with a variety of levels of ability, And we wouldn't want to put anyone off from posting and trying to improve now would we).
will invite! a variety of responses, including this one and I would hope that anyone who makes such an invitation, would also have a thick enough skin to take those responses well, just that you seem a little flustered by some of them. No need for frowns just Smileeeee and shrug it off sir

The hand itself, yeah you played it ok, Although there was nothing spectacular about it either, but one question.. How is him letting you catch up, or him increasing your eventual return on the hand, Any real achievement by you or cause for you to Brag in the first place?
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 10:07 AM
(#7)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Some fair questions there stix:

I fail to see how it is distasteful. Its simply a matter of fact that I hate slowplaying. Yet some people love to let people catch up and surpass them before they dream of taking an aggressive action. He thought he hit the jackpot when I vastly overbet the pot. Nope. He made it so cheap for me to catch up.

You don't think there is an educational point there? He flopped trips, turned a full house, yet the pot was tiny at that point. I rivered a full house and took heavily aggressive action to grow. Maybe it isn't worth bragging about winning a huge pot when it was 18bb on the turn. Most of the stuff.posted in the bad beat section isn't worth much comment either. Few of them are truly bad beats.

What other section suits this hand if I want to post it?

As for thick skin. No-one has posted an insult. Do I need a think skin for future comments?
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 10:31 AM
(#8)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
It's not the section, or anything else, It was just the heading, and looking at it from only my, or your point of view, there is actually nothing wrong with it at all.. since we have both been around long enough to have a fair idea of what you actually meant by it all.

I just try to, and I dearly wish more people would too, To look at the things we do or say from the point of view of the least experienced and least familiar with PSO..

Because all too often any of us could without realising it, or meaning to! be putting people off asking things, which could help them. From fear of being ridiculed.

Let's say someone helped 100 people who agreed with their way of thinking, but in the process also scared off 200 others with their manner of going about it, Despite it looking on face value as if they had been a valuable member of the community, the net result would actually be more harm than good. And since we only see the people who stay, not those who come for a look and think, oh no I am not subjecting myself to that, we never really get an accurate view of both sides. So the only way to prevent it is to think carefully about all the possible outcomes from what we say, or how we say it.

So thank you for taking it so well, It was not personal it just felt like the right place under the right circumstances to make what I feel is an important point.
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 10:39 AM
(#9)
TweedleBeetl's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,146
I see no problems with brags in the Brag section.

In fact this hand is a wonderfully educational item on why slow-playing is bad.

Even the way villain shoved in the end when he was obviously beat (I mean what could Hero possibly call with that was worse than Jacks full? And what will he fold with that beat it?) is typical for slow-playing scenarios. Villain is now so attached to his slow-play that he cannot bear to fold.

In any case, the Brag and the Beat sections serve a needed use both as a release valve for the emotional state of the poster, and often provide educational value in the discussions.
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 10:47 AM
(#10)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
At Tweedlebeetle:
I pointed out no problems with posting brags in the brags section.. neither did I suggest that this was not a very fine example of why slow playing is bad?
But the points I did make still stand.. And I have spoken to a lot of people who point blank refuse to post anywhere on this forum for the exact reasons I described, So those points also had sufficient supporting evidence before, I had made them.
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 12:08 PM
(#11)
taxi128's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 245
bhoylegend---stixx-144

the heading!!--- sort of like a TONY G comment to PHIL HELLMOUTH after winning a pot from him.


Triple Bracelet Winner
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 12:25 PM
(#12)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxi128 View Post
bhoylegend---stixx-144

the heading!!--- sort of like a TONY G comment to PHIL HELLMOUTH after winning a pot from him.
V true.. and from all of our points of view, it is easily taken as such, since none of us fall into the new or unfamiliar category..

And to continue in the same vein.. If a battle between Helmuth and Tony G.. was the first thing someone saw about the game.. That could be enough to put anyone off for life too

There are countless examples of what I eluded to on here, It relates equally to them all..

Last edited by stix144; Sun Jan 05, 2014 at 12:31 PM..
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 02:31 PM
(#13)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
All,

The thread title can be viewed as "in your face" or "hey, that's interesting". Those who find it upsetting need to learn that poker is a survival of the fittest endeavor. You must grow a thick skin to survive.

Slow playing is a trade off between variance and winnings. If the slow player wants to make that trade so be it. I have been on both sides of the trade.

Since bhoy posted without reads or explanation there is no reason to take exception to comments that presume a situation different from your perception. If you don't want to be misunderstood post more information. If you don't wish for comments I'd add something like "and for your viewing pleasure" to the post, otherwise you open yourself for comments.

Lastly I wish to address the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) phenomenon. While it is a valid mathematical concept, it is misapplied when it comes to education, as witnessed by the near destruction of the USA's education system. There are tough lessons in poker and Fancy Play Syndrome is a prime example. Players who don't recognize they make more from their opponent's mistakes than their great play will have a tough road. Soft pedaling such things does no one a service.

Good Decisions to all.

PS: Slow play is FPS only when overused.
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 04:34 PM
(#14)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I will say this for my post discouraging people to post:

I made a post in an existing thread once upon a time, where I gave an opinion, and not only was I derided by a respected member (And, by the way, I don't think I am a respected member), but someone who is meant to moderate such comments actually lumped in and agreed with that person. More or less calling me an idiot who didnt know what he was talking about.

So, if my post above transgressed in such a way, I sincerely apologise.

Fact remains, this is teh internets, and stuff happens.

Lets go post on NVG.
 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 05:06 PM
(#15)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I loved the title - I loved the hand - I loved Arty's pithy initial response.

Not sure I would have played it the same from either perspective - but cash games confuse me anyhow.

And as a respected/hated member of the community (it seems to change daily) I would say.

The PSO site should be CLOSED to NEW MEMBERS immediately. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER - we must keep it from the masses.

Maybe not - but the learning curve we all go through is much the same - if some posts language or style put people off it is not a good sign. If they are truly out of order they will get moderated.

Nice hand bhoylegend

Nice etiquette discussion too.

Ed


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Jan 05, 2014, 05:19 PM
(#16)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
In the interest of fairness I will make my last comment here on the subject one that agrees with you implicitly!
you are not the first who I have heard say such things about people who should indeed know better!! and I couldn't agree more that it's detrimental to us all when it happens. I only wish I had witnessed it when it happened to you you can read between the lines on that one..

fwiw, when I first started looking around here, you were someone who stood out as a light amongst the community! and I don't measure someone's worth by $$

EDIT: ED you may take a different route, but sir you still get there every time, not sure I agree that everything that should be moderated is, and to boot plenty that does not need to be.. is lol, but still loved that post and here lies someone who will be following your unique ramblings all year long

Last edited by stix144; Sun Jan 05, 2014 at 05:32 PM..
 
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Sat Jan 11, 2014, 04:28 AM
(#17)
CELL26's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 454
BronzeStar
I would just like to say that I had alot of fun reading this thread so thanks guys for all your input and great thoughts and opinions
 

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