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20 buy ins down in 8 days

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20 buy ins down in 8 days - Thu Jan 09, 2014, 07:37 AM
(#1)
adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630
Everybody goes on about how easy it is to beat 2nl and how you can easily print money at these stakes.

Ive been working so hard at my game lately (posting hands in the forum, watching videos and going over all the biggest pots from each of my sessions)

But each session im grinding out a 3 buy in loss or more. Maybe this game isnt for me i dont know, confidence is at an all time low right now.

Over and out,

Ads
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 07:47 AM
(#2)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsthepro777 View Post
Everybody goes on about how easy it is to beat 2nl and how you can easily print money at these stakes.

Ive been working so hard at my game lately (posting hands in the forum, watching videos and going over all the biggest pots from each of my sessions)

But each session im grinding out a 3 buy in loss or more. Maybe this game isnt for me i dont know, confidence is at an all time low right now.

Over and out,

Ads
I am in exactly the same position Ads.

I have set myself a $10 limit for this month to play cash at 2NL - and I don't really want to play it at all - I have played 2 sessions just to get the 1VPP for the January Challenges - and lost half that $10 already - so I am giving it up for this month.

I'm going to play minimal cash this year and just stick to MTTs & sitngos where I know my losses are fixed at the buy-ins and if I use good BRM I will have no problems.

I will return to the cash tables - but not until I have a decent roll and have done a lot of studying and analysis.

I think when your confidence is low cash games are the worst format to play.

Best of luck

Ed from Edinburgh - EdinFreeMan


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 07:48 AM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
What happened before the last 8 days?

Is this just a bad run after a good run or a break even stretch. Does it feel as if your game has changed?

The thing I have found at 2NL is that you have to aim for the fat value spots. There is rarely a great deal of sense in bluffing aside from cbetting. If you have a value hand bet bet bet. Be careful with marginal hands and it's often wise to fold if you are really unsure if you are ahead and the price is bad.

I know that is all fairly generic but it's hard to give concrete advice currently without further info.

Maybe post some positional stats as a starter. If you run a database.
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 08:45 AM
(#4)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi ads!

Not everyone finds 2NL easy, but when winning players from higher levels drop down, it often seems easy for them. Also, suckouts will be at thier highest there since weak players overplay their hands. The same day that I saw you for example, I 4b shoved all in preflop with AA and got called by a player holding 83s LOL! And yes, his flush got there, but I still had to laugh.

One thing you might try. Take a break from Zoom. Sit down at one regular table. Work on your note taking and reads, and pick your spots. Just try to play smart value based poker and see how it goes

GL and have fun at the tables!

Roland GTX
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 09:15 AM
(#5)
adsthepro777's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 630
ty for all the feedback huys

i will keep working at my game to try and get back on the up. Not giving up just yet :P

Edin - i've gone back and forth so much between being a sit n go player and a cash player i just wanna stick with cash this time and try and ride out the bad stretch. As for the confidence thing....i completely agree but i think confidence will come pretty easy if i can pick up a couple buy ins

Bhoy - i was on a heater but was still running $10 below ev lol, im actually still 10 buy ins below EV atm so i guess thats something :P I think in the past ive got into a lot of trouble betting 3 streets with a pair weak kicker and getting shown a bigger kicker every time. So yeah there's definately a lot of leaks in my game that i need to sort out sooner rather than later.

Roland - Im pretty sure i still owned you in that 3 bet pot but yeah i was referring to your printing money quote lol kind of made me think what the hell am i doing wrong here? haha, on a serious note though im cutting myself down to playing just the one zoom table for a while just not trying to get too much volume in (15k in 9 days) Also i think i rush my decisions, need to take more time to consider ranges of villains and general spots where i'd usually look back and think "why did i call that? what a donk" lol

Thanks again for all the feedback guys, great to have all the support, love this site.

ty all

Ads
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 10:33 AM
(#6)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsthepro777 View Post
.. watching videos and going over all the biggest pots from each of my sessions...
I'd suggest you focus on the decisions where you had the most uncertainty or other problems.

Good decisions.
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 10:57 AM
(#7)
Alienwin's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 4
Hello Guys,


I have notice that if you are playing low buy-ins, minimal buy ins, the other players have the tendance to risk more, call more, go all in more, because they are not risking so much money, so they will make another deposit...and so...
Try to wach like an observer some tables like, SNG 3.5, or 7, cash 5NL, and you will see that you will be treated with a some kind higher respect on your play.

This is what i have realized playing, and it doesn't mean that you can see the same like me.
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 11:22 AM
(#8)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
BronzeStar
if u can skip 2nl do it! i lost a lot of money cause russians tend to win too often with hands like J8o or A3o...
it drove me crazy so i deplted roll several times after hitting fulltilt after couple of hands like that...
2nl is similar donk play like freerolls are...

skip 2nl and u will feel much better...
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 11:48 AM
(#9)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Wow, we have some 'move up to where they respect your raises' advice and it appears to be genuine, 2+2 would have a field day with those.

I'd like to say what I feel needs to be said to that but it risks being cited as reason for an infraction. It suffices to say that moving up because they respect your raises and play more straightforward is really bad advice. I've actually moved down voluntarily to play 2NL precisely because I made a withdrawal and, while I could still have played higher, it is because they don't respect my raises that I have loved playing at 2NL.

I get people shoving with nonsense when I have the nuts. I get people calling huge value bets with mediocre hands. You move up, they respect your bets, so they fold and don't give you value. When I get home tonight, or maybe tomorrow, I will search out some great stuff from 2+2 which augments what we have here.

For players learning the game 2NL is exactly the place to be.
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 02:05 PM
(#10)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
Wow, we have some 'move up to where they respect your raises' advice and it appears to be genuine, 2+2 would have a field day with those.

I'd like to say what I feel needs to be said to that but it risks being cited as reason for an infraction. It suffices to say that moving up because they respect your raises and play more straightforward is really bad advice. I've actually moved down voluntarily to play 2NL precisely because I made a withdrawal and, while I could still have played higher, it is because they don't respect my raises that I have loved playing at 2NL.

I get people shoving with nonsense when I have the nuts. I get people calling huge value bets with mediocre hands. You move up, they respect your bets, so they fold and don't give you value. When I get home tonight, or maybe tomorrow, I will search out some great stuff from 2+2 which augments what we have here.

For players learning the game 2NL is exactly the place to be.
well maybe u feel that way... i find 5nl much better than 2nl... maybe i just came across bigger number of players shoving J8o vs mine KK/AA and lose...
i think the larger step u take game is more dependent on skill while 2nl is about luck
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 03:08 PM
(#11)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
BronzeStar
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...219_B202DA1676

ok this was 5nl... 2nl is even worse than this...
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 03:31 PM
(#12)
morduk666's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
well maybe u feel that way... i find 5nl much better than 2nl... maybe i just came across bigger number of players shoving J8o vs mine KK/AA and lose...
i think the larger step u take game is more dependent on skill while 2nl is about luck
That is very arguable. Since we expect to have bigger edge at 2nl than 5nl. Bigger edge means less variance(luck factor):

Ok, those players suckout sometimes. But we are printing EV everytime we stick money in favourable spots. We want to go into those spots.

For those downswings it's vital to search the cause of it imo : Either it is variance or bad play. Sometimes it is very thin line between them(anobody experienced that?) Just keep analyzing and grinding(watch out for burn out) and you will be okay.

Last edited by morduk666; Thu Jan 09, 2014 at 03:38 PM..
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 03:39 PM
(#13)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by morduk666 View Post
That is very arguable. Since we expect to have bigger edge at 2nl than 5nl. Bigger edge means less variance(luck factor).

For those downswings it's vital to search the cause of it imo : Either it is variance or bad play. Sometimes it is very thin line between them(anobody experienced that?)
i am just saying if u raise 4BB from button blinds will fold more than if u do same in 2nl,0.08 to see a flop with K3o why not...

bigger the stakes,people are more cautious...
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 04:00 PM
(#14)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
bigger the stakes,people are more cautious...
As you move your opponents will become more aggressive. As the range tightens aggression must increase. If that suits your style, you should find moving up through the micro ranks goes pretty smooth. If you have to adapt to aggression (both facing and displaying) you should proceed more cautiously.

Remember, the need for good hands corresponds to the showdown rate. The fewer hands going to showdown the more creative you can and should be. But it's a delicate balance to maintain if you're not table aware.
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 04:06 PM
(#15)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
BronzeStar
moving up thru micro is PAIN...

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...491_D6BBC405C5

take a look... i sensed he got KK but how could i fold QQ?
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 04:22 PM
(#16)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
i am just saying if u raise 4BB from button blinds will fold more than if u do same in 2nl,0.08 to see a flop with K3o why not...

bigger the stakes,people are more cautious...

If I have players in the blinds calling my button raises (CO and HJ as well...) with a range that has K3 in it,I'd rather stay there and play my hands BLIND against a player like that than try to take money from more accomplished players.

I'm crazy that way.
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 04:28 PM
(#17)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie Pip View Post
If I have players in the blinds calling my button raises (CO and HJ as well...) with a range that has K3 in it,I'd rather stay there and play my hands BLIND against a player like that than try to take money from more accomplished players.

I'm crazy that way.
maybe you dont play blinds with k3o but 1mil russians do!
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 04:44 PM
(#18)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
maybe you dont play blinds with k3o but 1mil russians do!
That's a shame,only in that it's not 2 million.

Or more...
 
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Thu Jan 09, 2014, 04:45 PM
(#19)
aspok123's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinFreeMan View Post
I have played 2 sessions just to get the 1VPP for the January Challenges - and lost half that $10 already - so I am giving it up for this month.
I'm not a cash player, however for this challenge promo and this magic 1 VPP played full ring 2NL without auto top to 2$ to be marked as a fish
I had not bad session, and earn about 2 VPP simply playing rather tournament poker than cash game with minraise pre flop
But the lowest stack I had it was about 1.5$ and biggest 2.6$.
However, I played maybe to many hands and run with AKo into spot with AA... and had to go all in on the river, so 1 buyin invested so far for challenge ring games.
Next time I will play... FL 2NL-it is relax game and many players on flop with trash-I play PL Omaha too, so I think it is not possible loose at FL table another buyin playing nuts and I want take it back

Last edited by aspok123; Thu Jan 09, 2014 at 04:57 PM..
 
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Sun Jan 12, 2014, 05:54 AM
(#20)
BooRay199's Avatar
Since: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
there is alot to learn in 2NL. There is also the biggest skill differences, from total maniacs fish and regulars sharks ect.. But you have to learn to indetify them and play them, If you cant do that, you cant do that no matter what limit you are playing. and almost every hand can dog AA in any limit, but allin preflop with AA is +ev play no matter what is the imediate outcome be happy for someone to call your showes with worse hands because there is your income.. I am confident to say that I beat NL2 with 15+bb/100 but there are stretches of 10k hands that i am break even or negative and there are streches with over 40+bb/100 .. You have to learn to play the players and there is no better way to do it than in 2NL if you go higher, you will just lose more money.luck in poker evens out. and nobody said that beating 2NL is easy, yes it is once you beat it first and you go on autopilot and even then decisions are somethimes hard and remember fish can also flop nuts and you will valuebet your second nuts. I must admit 20buyins drawdawns is huge one but if you play it right you must be up over the long run(atlest 250k hands imo).. C all in adj stat shows you where you should be, so pay attention to that stat aswell. if callinadj is positive after your session and you are down, there is nothing to worry about, you played good, just luck wasnt on your side.
keep working, it does pay off. And I wish you more luck in the future.
cheers
 

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