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5NL 6mz – Set on royal board, turn plan?

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5NL 6mz – Set on royal board, turn plan? - Sun Jan 12, 2014, 07:57 AM
(#1)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
villain: 16 hands, 27/13/11, AF:inf, WWSF: 2/2, likely an aggressive tag, when we see him do check-raise OTF and combine to stats.

What is our value line OTT and what is our plan?

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

Button ($7.59)
SB ($5.03)
BB ($15.72)
UTG ($5.29)
MP ($2.50)
Hero (CO) ($10.84)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32) A, J, K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.26, BB raises to $1, Hero raises to $2.70, BB calls $1.70

Turn: ($5.72) A (2 players)
BB checks


Giving range for villain to do check raise and not shoving but calling after 3b is really hard. Could it be something like {AT,AQ,AJ, JQ, KJ, ThJh, KT} Well the point being he has mostly some kind of draw and sometimes Ax hand.

This in mind OTT, actually this is way ahead way behind situation? So we should check. Second idea is to bet small, like 2.20.

OTR:
If draw competes, he bets -> our plan is to shove
if draw does not complete he bets -> we plan to just call
if draw does not complete, he X -> we bet for value small

Last edited by braveslice; Sun Jan 12, 2014 at 08:04 AM..
 
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Sun Jan 12, 2014, 08:20 AM
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mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
What do you mean royal board?

There is no royal flush, when he calls he might of been raising a draw which i think is bad on this flop, on the turn all you beat is KJ now as AJ AK just made a better boat, i might check turn and call a river bet or bet fold.

Un till you have reads he is raising draws or top pair i think i like to control the pot here especially 200bb deep. You could bet to get value from a flopped straight if he was trying to get trappy by calling but i would just prefer to play it safe with JJ and see the river.
 
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Sun Jan 12, 2014, 08:24 AM
(#3)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
I'll write what I think about his range , there isn't AQ, AK in his hand range as he is unknown and I made assumption that he would 3 bet them PF. he can't have JhX hand you had one he had some big draw like QhKx,already made hand QT that decided to slow play or A9-AJ, but there isn't a lot of AJ hands, just two combos, you had blocker. that's why I would cbet OTT , to get value from A9-AT,straights and draws, because draws won't pay any thing if they miss. and my line IP would be bet/bet/bet.

Last edited by Shichi-77; Sun Jan 12, 2014 at 08:35 AM..
 
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Sun Jan 12, 2014, 09:03 AM
(#4)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
Well, royal board is just a name for cards with value of J+ sometimes T+. I don't really know if this is true name for it because I came up with it myself, but quick googling shows that at least bad players are using the exact same name.

Yeah, maybe I should take JhTh out of the range.

“draws won't pay anything if they miss. and my line IP would be bet/bet/bet.”, that was actually my though process during the hand. Now I’m having second thoughts, because Dave's lessons are haunting me. I'm probably over analyzing this, and bet/bet is the way to go. After all, Can villain call us worse? The answer is strong yes.

Last edited by braveslice; Sun Jan 12, 2014 at 09:10 AM..
 
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Sun Jan 12, 2014, 10:58 AM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveslice View Post
Well, royal board is just a name for cards with value of J+ sometimes T+. I don't really know if this is true name for it because I came up with it myself, but quick googling shows that at least bad players are using the exact same name.

Yeah, maybe I should take JhTh out of the range.

“draws won't pay anything if they miss. and my line IP would be bet/bet/bet.”, that was actually my though process during the hand. Now I’m having second thoughts, because Dave's lessons are haunting me. I'm probably over analyzing this, and bet/bet is the way to go. After all, Can villain call us worse? The answer is strong yes.
The villain can definitely call with worse but the thing is he raised flop and then called a 3bet if he had a straight he would of jammed all in and probably with better sets as well. So when he flats it looks like two pair getting cold feet to me and the only way you can really assume you can get called from worse is if he slow plays a straight after you 3 bet or he raises draws on that flop.

Had he not raised the flop i would be barreling all day long.

I might be wrong but im just saying when people raise you got to think about what are they raising and to think he raises and flats a straight vs you i think is unlikely.
 
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Mon Jan 13, 2014, 05:16 AM
(#6)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
I do agree with that. Further, he might as well fold Ax and str to turn bet as my range seems so extremely strong. One of the first things people learn is not to chase draws on the paired board.


Maybe this is 50/50 situation where both actions are equal.

Last edited by braveslice; Mon Jan 13, 2014 at 05:20 AM..
 
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Mon Jan 13, 2014, 10:37 AM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hey brave,

Bet and stack off imo.

16 hands is not enough to form a read so I can't agree with drawing conclusions that villain is an aggressive TAG. His preflop 3b for example, is nonsense. 11% looks like he's very aggro, but on this sample size it's 1/9. Maybe he is a very aggro 3-bettor. Or maybe he had AA that time. We don't know yet.

So all that being said, I still favor betting and stacking off here because all the hands beating us are blocked by our holding or the action. Many players would have 3-bet us pre with AK or KK, and would have quite possibly 4-bet the flop with those hands instead of slowing down.. We block AJ pretty hard. These hands aren't impossible, but seem less likely for sure. So I think his range on the flop is weighted towards AQ/AT/Ax and flush draws. None of these are folding to a turn bet, so extract away.


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Mon Jan 13, 2014, 10:44 AM
(#8)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Un till you have reads he is raising draws or top pair i think i like to control the pot here especially 200bb deep.
We already passed up the chance to control the pot, it's already out of control. There's $5.72 in the middle and we only have $7.99 behind. The pot control lines are on the flop, check/calling or bet/calling. We can check back turn if we think that's best, but we are already playing a large pot regardless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by braveslice
Yeah, maybe I should take JhTh out of the range.
I would take all holdings with the Jh out of his range.


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Mon Jan 13, 2014, 11:08 AM
(#9)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
If he somehow gets a royal in this hand i'm gonna stop playing on pokerstars.
 
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Mon Jan 13, 2014, 01:55 PM
(#10)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
We already passed up the chance to control the pot, it's already out of control. There's $5.72 in the middle and we only have $7.99 behind. The pot control lines are on the flop, check/calling or bet/calling. We can check back turn if we think that's best, but we are already playing a large pot regardless.



I would take all holdings with the Jh out of his range.
Yh i never looked at the pot size so i dont even like what i said about checking turn and bet folding the river now, I really dont like his flop raise and call though i just feel like he was flatting two pair.

If your saying the money should be going in though il just have to be putting my money in then as well, if the stacks were deeper though say another 15 behind would you be more likely to control the pot then or do you just think that were good enough to get the moneys in anyway.
 
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Mon Jan 13, 2014, 02:19 PM
(#11)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
if the stacks were deeper though say another 15 behind would you be more likely to control the pot then or do you just think that were good enough to get the moneys in anyway.
Yeah, as we get deeper slowing down makes sense. Stack off ranges will (presumably) get tighter for the villain, and they also may start flatting differently pre, flatting AA/KK/AK more frequently rather than reraising us and bloating the preflop pot in a spot where we can flat their reraise wide with stacks super deep and make their post flop life miserable.


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