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2nl Zoom - KK

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2nl Zoom - KK - Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:18 AM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

Please could you analyse my hand below.



Didn't cbet, wanted villain to bet as there were no draws really on this flop. I think there is probably merit in betting for value, since you can be called by worse, e.g. AQ - lol

I checked the turn, as I wanted villain to do the betting, to take money off of him while that I am most likely ahead.

Now the the Ace comes and I decided to bet. In your eyes do you think this was a mistake given that there was a flush draw and overcard (Ax beats me)on the river?

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:35 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I think we have to cbet the flop for value. Were we sure that villain was going to bet here if we didnt?

As played, I would now lead the turn to take back the initiative and again, for value, villain may just have bet flop because we didnt. We cant be sure that he hit something.

River is a bad card for us, as played, I am probably check/folding, maybe calling if the price is stupidly cheap. I just think we are behind quite often now.
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:35 AM
(#3)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
As often stated, this is a bet/fold situation imo.
Bet every street. If you get raised: fold.

You played the hand way too passive, you won't get any value out of a lot of hands that are in his range, this way

This was a superb flop for you. All pocketpairs, all Qx, all broadwayhands, suited connectors that hit middle pair etc, will all call at least one bet with only 1 (low) highcard in the flop. A second bet on the turn will probably wash out most hands but you still might get value from Qx, 10 x , J x kind of hands.

The river is unlucky. AQ, a hand that makes perfect sence, got there. Still think you should bet and fold to a raise.
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 09:42 AM
(#4)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers guys,

I think I have been playing so bad recently.

Bhoylegend: Answer to your question, I had no reads on villain or stats, so I wasn't sure that this villain was going to bet here.

Rkleefstra: I think I have been playing too passive recently.


Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 10:29 AM
(#5)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I think bhoy and Ray have picked up on the main issues here.

You should be CBetting the flop for value here. Slowplaying means you are likely going to miss a street of value somewhere and you're giving the opponent a free opportunity to see another card.

Another problem with not CBetting is that if you're planning to check/call all three streets, you have no idea if you're doing it with the best hand or not.

Also if you only CBet your bluffs and weaker one-pair hands, people will notice and you're going to become very exploitable as you start to move up limits.

As played I'm not sure what worse is going to call your river bet. Maybe some Qx hand but I think they might even fold as you have played the hand like a random Ax that missed the flop.

I don't mind check/calling as a bluff catcher because you've played this hand so weakly, but only up to about 50-60% pot.
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 11:00 AM
(#6)
IBNash's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 177
Why check the flop or bet that River? Seems you were sure villain was gonna value own himself, why not check raise flop and check raise/shove the Turn?
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 12:02 PM
(#7)
mute07's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 75
Agreed with everybody else you should be cbetting there. On the turn I wouldn't slow down, mostly after the 2nd card for the flush showed up you need to make them pay. When the Ace came up on the river I would've check/fold since the way it was played AQ makes a lot of sense. Best of lucks!
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 01:59 PM
(#8)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkleefstra View Post
Bet every street. If you get raised: fold.
This.

It's really as simple as that. Folow the ABC line. Bet because you think you have the best hand, and only put the breaks on when villain gives you reason to believe you do not.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:00 PM
(#9)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Artysmokes,

Hope you read this. I will take these on board. So what about when the board gets scary e.g. When the flush got there, and when there is an ace on board that you don't have - do we continue or do we check, but then that could give the villain a chance to stab.

Thanks for all the help. I will get there in the end.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:01 PM
(#10)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Artysmokes,

Hope you read this. I will take these on board. So what about when the board gets scary e.g. When the flush got there, and when there is an ace on board that you don't have - do we continue or do we check, but then that could give the villain a chance to stab.

Thanks for all the help. I will get there in the end.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:28 PM
(#11)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin1988 View Post
Artysmokes,

Hope you read this. I will take these on board. So what about when the board gets scary e.g. When the flush got there, and when there is an ace on board that you don't have - do we continue or do we check, but then that could give the villain a chance to stab.

Thanks for all the help. I will get there in the end.

Cheers,

Pullin
I've just been watching this video by Flix on the art of value betting (at the moment it's titled wrong but just click play and you should see a video by Flix).
It's well worth an hour of your time and goes through all the concepts we have discussed in this thread with actual examples:

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...y-Million-Pt-1
 
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Tue Jan 14, 2014, 06:53 PM
(#12)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers Spand42

I will have a good watch and re-watch so to speak.

Thanks guys for all the help.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Wed Jan 15, 2014, 02:52 AM
(#13)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Spand42,

Awesome video. Just what I need.

Do you know where part 2 is, I can't seem to find it?

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Wed Jan 15, 2014, 07:10 AM
(#14)
rkleefstra's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,328
I think this is part 2:

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...Betting-Part-2

and this is part 3 (last):

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...Betting-Part-3
 
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Wed Jan 15, 2014, 11:19 AM
(#15)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers Rkleefstra
 

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