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Lessons in betting put to the test

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Lessons in betting put to the test - Wed Jan 15, 2014, 08:47 PM
(#1)
Sailor921's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 5
BronzeStar
I am fairly new to Hold 'Em but seem to do well in spite of my lack of experience or education. I can usually place in one of the paying positions in a tourney though not often enough that I consider quitting my day job.

I figure I have plenty of room for improvement and have been going through the PSO lessons and trying to put them to the test. I finished a section on betting where raising/folding is preferable to checking/calling which I can understand. So I put it to the test for a few rounds.

PokerStars Hand #110208275068: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2014/01/15 20:15:47 ET
Table 'Albiorix III' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: brnparisbrn ($2.15 in chips)
Seat 2: suileet ($2.17 in chips)
Seat 3: 1.TORES ($2.68 in chips)
Seat 4: lifeless4u ($5 in chips)
Seat 5: AzZazaza ($1.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Sailor921 ($1.54 in chips)
1.TORES: posts small blind $0.01
lifeless4u: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sailor921 [7d Kh]
AzZazaza: calls $0.02
Sailor921: calls $0.02 <-- didn't think my hand was too good or bad yet.
brnparisbrn: folds
suileet: folds
1.TORES: calls $0.01
lifeless4u: checks
*** FLOP *** [7c 4c 8d]
1.TORES: checks
lifeless4u: checks
AzZazaza: checks
Sailor921: bets $0.04 <--- too agreesive for middle pair?
1.TORES: folds
lifeless4u: folds
AzZazaza: calls $0.04
*** TURN *** [7c 4c 8d] [Qd]
AzZazaza: checks
Sailor921: bets $0.06 <-- cards don't justify it, but opponent just checked so I raised with confidence
AzZazaza: calls $0.06
*** RIVER *** [7c 4c 8d Qd] [6c]
AzZazaza: checks
Sailor921: checks <--- thought i should check for showdown with just a pair of sevens
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AzZazaza: shows [Js 9h] (high card Queen)
Sailor921: shows [7d Kh] (a pair of Sevens)
Sailor921 collected $0.27 from pot
<--- I won!
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.28 | Rake $0.01
Board [7c 4c 8d Qd 6c]
Seat 1: brnparisbrn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: suileet (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 1.TORES (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: lifeless4u (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: AzZazaza showed [Js 9h] and lost with high card Queen
Seat 6: Sailor921 showed [7d Kh] and won ($0.27) with a pair of Sevens

Nice pot for a weak hand, I thought.

Next hand:
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sailor921 [7c 4s]
Sailor921: folds

Next hand:
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sailor921 [7d 2d]
Sailor921: folds <--- Big blind but folded to a raise holding these cards.

Next hand:
PokerStars Hand #110208365237: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2014/01/15 20:18:22 ET
Table 'Albiorix III' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: brnparisbrn ($2.15 in chips)
Seat 2: suileet ($2.17 in chips)
Seat 3: 1.TORES ($2.69 in chips)
Seat 4: lifeless4u ($5 in chips)
Seat 5: AzZazaza ($1.38 in chips)
Seat 6: Sailor921 ($1.67 in chips)
Sailor921: posts small blind $0.01 <--- already in on the small blind.
brnparisbrn: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sailor921 [2c As]
suileet: folds
1.TORES: folds
lifeless4u: folds
AzZazaza: folds
AzZazaza leaves the table
Sailor921: calls $0.01 <--- wasn't going to raise as A-2 isn't too strong.
brnparisbrn: checks
*** FLOP *** [7d Ac 2s]
Sailor921: bets $0.04 <--- good raise with 2 pair, Aces and 2s.
brnparisbrn: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.04) returned to Sailor921
Sailor921 collected $0.04 from pot
<--- was I too agressive with that bet?
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.04 | Rake $0
Board [7d Ac 2s]
Seat 1: brnparisbrn (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: suileet folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 1.TORES folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: lifeless4u folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: AzZazaza (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Sailor921 (small blind) collected ($0.04)

Was I too agressive with the bet to make everyone fold so soon and get such a small pot?

PokerStars Hand #110208382924: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2014/01/15 20:18:53 ET
Table 'Albiorix III' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: brnparisbrn ($2.13 in chips)
Seat 2: suileet ($2.17 in chips)
Seat 3: 1.TORES ($2.69 in chips)
Seat 4: lifeless4u ($5 in chips)
Seat 6: Sailor921 ($1.69 in chips)
brnparisbrn: posts small blind $0.01
suileet: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sailor921 [Js Jc] <--- extremely strong hand!
1.TORES: folds
lifeless4u: folds
Sailor921: raises $0.02 to $0.04 <--- a raise
brnparisbrn: folds
suileet: calls $0.02
*** FLOP *** [5c 6h Qd]
suileet: checks
Yurchik DP joins the table at seat #5
Sailor921: bets $0.06 <--- even with the queen on the table, I had confidence in my pair of Js since my opp checked.
suileet: calls $0.06 <-- and then called
*** TURN *** [5c 6h Qd] [Kh]
suileet: checks
Sailor921: bets $0.10 <--- opp checked with Q and K on the table, so I still felt good about the pair of Js.
suileet: calls $0.10 <--- and the opp calls.
*** RIVER *** [5c 6h Qd Kh] [8h]
suileet: checks
Sailor921: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
suileet: shows [Qh Jh] (a flush, King high)
Sailor921: shows [Js Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
suileet collected $0.40 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.41 | Rake $0.01
Board [5c 6h Qd Kh 8h]
Seat 1: brnparisbrn (small blind) folded before Flop

Cripe! Opp made hand on the river and actually had me beat on the flop with a pair of Qs. My aggressive betting didn't scare the opp off, but the opp didn't act like he had a strong hand.

What could I have learned from this to avoid losing so much? Please comment on any of my actions - what I did right, what I did wrong.

Thanks, and see you at the tables!
 
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Wed Jan 15, 2014, 11:17 PM
(#2)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
*Moved to analysis forum* - Fadyen



Tournament of Champions Winner 2013

Bracelet Winner

 
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Thu Jan 16, 2014, 04:55 AM
(#3)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Hi Sailor, welcome to the forums and thanks for posting your hands!

In future, can you please use the Hand Replayer facility we have on the website, it makes the action easier to follow. Instructions are here:

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...and-for-review

Can you also please post just one hand per thread? It makes discussion about the hands much less confusing. There is nothing wrong with posting multiple threads.

I'll analyse your hands in my next few posts.
 
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Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:08 AM
(#4)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Hand 1:

In poker you should generally be looking to take aggressive actions (betting or raising) rather than passive actions (calling and checking). You should only play passively with a good reason, otherwise you should just fold your hand.

This rule applies to K7o from middle position. You rightly conclude that this hand is too weak to come in for a raise, which means it's also too weak to call with. If you limp with your weak hands and raise with your strong ones, you become very easy to read. I NEVER open-limp in a 6-Max cash game, I either come in for a raise or fold. With K7o, I would just fold, but would prefer raising to calling.

On the flop I like your idea of being aggressive. Your opponents have shown a lot of weakness by not raising preflop and not betting on the flop, so you can just take the pot here and now. However the board is really "wet". That means there are lots of possibilities for people to draw to a straight or a flush. Therefore it is unlikely that you will get people to fold and there are so many scary turn or river cards that can make your hand bad. I would just check and try to get to a cheap showdown.

On the turn the same reasoning applies. You've only got third pair and your opponent isn't going to fold any of his draws. I'd just check.

I like your check on the river. The scariest card on the deck has come and if your opponent had bet, you would have had to fold. As it turned out, villain called down with a gutshot straight draw and you won a nice pot with third pair. Make sure you take a note that the villain doesn't like to fold. Don't bluff this guy and when you have a decent hand, bet often and bet big because he will keep calling!
 
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Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:14 AM
(#5)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
I'll ignore the 74o and 72o hands.

Hand 2:

Again like in Hand 1, I just prefer to open for a raise as by limping you'll be out of position on future streets and you're giving your opponent the opportunity to hit a flop with his random cards.

This flop is completely opposite from the previous flop - this flop is "dry". It is a "rainbow" flop (three different suits, so no flush draws are possible) and the cards are not connected well so very few straight draws are possible.

Your hand is very strong so you should be betting to try and build up the pot. However most of the time your opponent is just going to fold because there are very few combinations of hands he can continue with because there are only two Aces left in the deck and there are very few draws he could call with.

FWIW I'd probably prefer to bet $0.03 rather than $0.04 which looks scarier but this makes very little difference.
 
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Thu Jan 16, 2014, 05:37 AM
(#6)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Hand 3:

Now you have a strong hand you decide to raise! Which is good but makes your limps in the earlier hands very obvious that you limp with mediocre hands and raise with strong ones.

The size of your raise is fine, but as you're learning the game, I would just stick to raising 3x the BB from all positions with all strength of hands so you don't start accidentally give away information. As you start to improve, you can find ways of adjusting the bet sizing according to different situations.

On the flop I think you're right to have every confidence in believing that JJ is still the best hand, but not for the reason you state. When a villain calls a preflop raise and are out of position, they will usually check back to the raiser regardless of the strength of their hand. This is because they expect the raiser to make a "continuation bet". Most of the time, the preflop raiser should continuation bet whether they have hit or missed the flop to continue telling the story that they have a strong hand. The villain can then decide to call, raise or fold.

The reason why JJ is still likely the best hand is because villain will almost never have KK or AA here and out of all the possible hands villain could hold, few of them contain Qx. So until you hear otherwise, you should bet on the assumption that you have the best hand and try to get calls from worse hands e.g. flush draws, straight draws, 6x, lower pocket pairs. I like your bet and your sizing is also good.

Villain calls and the turn completes the flush draw and brings another overcard. This turn brings a tricky decision. I think that checking and trying to reach a cheap showdown is probably the best play. The only better hands you could get to fold are weak Qx hands and now I don't think you'll get any worse hands to call as the board has run out very scary.

On the river you made the right decision to see a cheap showdown knowing that you are going to be behind most of the time.

I don't think you did too much wrong this hand, you can't win every hand in poker!
 

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