Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

5nl FR zoom, AK, wet board, bad river call?

Old
Default
5nl FR zoom, AK, wet board, bad river call? - Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:36 AM
(#1)
kisobel's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Thought I'd post this up here as I found it a really tough decision and it has been bugging me for a few days!

No real stats on villain as only 6 hands on my HUD.

My main question here is should I have got away from his shove on the river? When I watch back now it looks like exactly what it is. But at the time I had been worried about AQ and AJ (which I was now beating with my rivered straight) and I had the A of spades so thought spade broadway combos were very unlikely. And I wasn't really expecting small suited connectors would call a 3-bet pre flop. I suppose I called thinking he might have AK/KQ/KJ and we would be splitting.

Secondary question - should I have bet bigger on the flop and turn to try to price him out of calling?

 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:50 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Pre, I think it standard.

Flop, I personally would be betting bigger here, probably around 70-75c. For value and to charge drawing hands. He can have a lot of Ax hands that we are still ahead of but who wont fold. Spades are also calling of course.

Turn, I think I am probably betting bigger again for the same reasons as above, conceivably at this stage we are behind but can still be ahead a lot of the time.

River, the effective stacks are still more than the pot, like you say, we are splitting with any K at this stage. It's hard to get away from the rivered nut straight. I dont know if I can do it. His line from flop to river does look like a flush draw though. I'd be interested here in whether bet/fold, check/call or check fold is the correct line. I think probably bet/fold.
 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 05:58 AM
(#3)
kisobel's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Yeah I was pretty happy to fire a third barrel on the river because there are so many worse hands that can call - lots of 2 pair combos. But having thought about it I think I agree that bet/fold is probably the right play... but still not sure because some of the time I think he makes the same shove with a king?
 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 06:04 AM
(#4)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by kisobel View Post
Yeah I was pretty happy to fire a third barrel on the river because there are so many worse hands that can call - lots of 2 pair combos. But having thought about it I think I agree that bet/fold is probably the right play... but still not sure because some of the time I think he makes the same shove with a king?
The hand analyser will probably cover this point, but when we are calling to split a pot, we need much better odds than usual because we aren't even winning the pot. We are often calling to split the losses on the rake. That means putting him directly on the same straight of course. When we factor in the fact that the board is also a potential flush board on the river, I think that makes it a fold. We're either calling to split or we are losing to the flush.

It's just a crappy situation to be in, and in the heat of the situation I am not certain that I would have been folding either, its a lot easier when you get to pause the action.
 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 11:24 AM
(#5)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
So, best case scenario is we call and chop?

I think you can derive the right play OP.
 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 12:43 PM
(#6)
Pokermancer8's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
Can someone comment on the villains cards? They are trash even at the turn.. Did he knew he was he reckless? Or he tried his luck?
 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 01:05 PM
(#7)
kisobel's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Well yeah, I wouldn't play smallish suited connectors this way, even with position as he had. But I am pretty nitty, and this is 5nl - I have seen people do things a lot more bizarre! (Like today someone called a short stack shove and then a re shove from me preflop... and turned over 73 offsuit!)
 
Old
Default
Sat Jan 18, 2014, 07:06 PM
(#8)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Tricky spot Kisobel!

I agree with Bhoy that the bet on the flop probably ought to be bigger as you will likely get more value from flush/straight draws this way.

The turn isn't the best card but I'm still betting for value until I hear otherwise. Again though I'd bet much bigger to get more value against any draws villain might be holding, something like $1.40 seems about right. You might not get this value if he just folds the river on a brick.

The biggest action card possible came on the river! I think this is a pretty clear bet/fold spot. As you say, he's played it like a flush draw all the way. I don't think villain is ever bluffing here because you've taken such a strong line, so you are either going to be up against a flush or Kx. He's also not playing a set like this, he'd have raised somewhere earlier on in the hand because of the wet board texture.

You are only chopping with Kx and losing to all flushes, which means you are getting a bad price to call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokermancer8 View Post
Can someone comment on the villains cards? They are trash even at the turn.. Did he knew he was he reckless? Or he tried his luck?
Villain's preflop play was a bit loose, but I think his post-flop play was fine because hero was giving him such a good price to call on each street.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com