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Skill Based Results vs End Standing Results via Mathematical Forulas

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Skill Based Results vs End Standing Results via Mathematical Forulas - Mon Jan 20, 2014, 05:51 AM
(#1)
MouZeAttacK's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 26
Poker Stars,

Is there anyway you can design a Poker League that rewards you with the correct play aka skill based rather than end result based?

I am confident a computer code can be created for this as using ones Poker Stats as evidence and refernece (eg, steal attempts, 3 bets).

I am writing this post due to being frustrated to the point of admitting myself to a mental hospital as folding on AQ, A10, K10 suited in middle-late position is not my style and so frustrated that Open League stifles my poker play due to not wanting massive negative points being knocked out early.

In a normal poker situation I would have shoved all in and put the huge chip stacks in late position up to a decision and be ready for a race (me having 1,300 and the 3 stacks in late position having over 3,500 each.

I know that the Poker Leagues on here are an excellent idea long term as mostly they help to improve ones poker abilities, however for the sack of my protecting my own abilities I am very tempted to quit the Leagues all together.

Last edited by MouZeAttacK; Mon Jan 20, 2014 at 06:00 AM..
 
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Mon Jan 20, 2014, 11:06 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,831
(Super-Moderator)
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Hi MouZeAttacK!

Shoving a stack early with marginal hands like the ones you referenced will basically never be the correct play. The only time when I want to shove in a cash tourney is when a standard raise pot-commits me.

Open them if it's folded to me with a raise to 3BB, yes.. shove.. NO!

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Mon Jan 20, 2014, 01:40 PM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
It is not so much that the game is rewarding incorrect play. It is the players who are choosing to play them are playing a style which has made you play out of your comfort zone.

The only way to be sure that the tournament is a style that you would enjoy is to limit it to people who only play "correct" (how you want them to play) poker. The only way I can currently see to do this would be home game and vetting those who join.

Grade b


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Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:43 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
The inherent problem with such a request is, who determines "correct play aka skill based"? Who is the vetter in Grade b's hypothetical home game club? It's not uncommon for a winning player to make a play that a losing player doesn't understand the concept behind, and thus label them fishy or lucky. The shoves you use loosely as an example may or may not be good depending on a number of factors. Nor can you use some math formula based on %'s to determine who is playing "good". Take 3B% for example... what's a good % for an MTT? It depends... maybe your formula says a 3B % of 7% in MTT's is good. It's too generic to be useful. In one table dynamic and set up a lower 3b% might be more appropriate, maybe 5%. In another 12% might be right. And then, it's just a %. We can both have a 3B% of 7% and be 3-betting totally different strategies and spots, one of us a good one and one of us not.

The skill league scoring system places a strong emphasis on survival early in the tournament. Maybe when in contention for a top league spot, this forces one to take it to an extreme. But personally I don't think this is a terrible thing... one of the biggest leaks newer players and big losing players alike tend to have is leaking chips and punting their stack early in events. If you are a winning MTTer with a solid ROI then grind real money events and don't worry about nitting it up in skill league or even playing the skill league. If you're not, then adjusting your strategy early in events with an eye towards stack protection might not be a bad thing. You can still work towards accumulating chips, but will have to do so in a more controlled way... which happens to be how a lot of top mtters approach the early stages of tournaments.


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Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:40 AM
(#5)
MouZeAttacK's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi MouZeAttacK!

Shoving a stack early with marginal hands like the ones you referenced will basically never be the correct play. The only time when I want to shove in a cash tourney is when a standard raise pot-commits me.

Open them if it's folded to me with a raise to 3BB, yes.. shove.. NO!

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)
JWK24,

I consider myself a good reader in regards to the climate of the table, so when I do shove with these marginal hands I am usually confident that majority will fold and leave me with 1 or 2 minimum to contend with therefore it is basically a race/flip with the remaining player. This is reflective of my style of poker play and what I want to achieve at the table long term as opposed to the stated correct play.
 
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Sat Apr 19, 2014, 05:55 AM
(#6)
MouZeAttacK's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
The inherent problem with such a request is, who determines "correct play aka skill based"? Who is the vetter in Grade b's hypothetical home game club? It's not uncommon for a winning player to make a play that a losing player doesn't understand the concept behind, and thus label them fishy or lucky. The shoves you use loosely as an example may or may not be good depending on a number of factors. Nor can you use some math formula based on %'s to determine who is playing "good". Take 3B% for example... what's a good % for an MTT? It depends... maybe your formula says a 3B % of 7% in MTT's is good. It's too generic to be useful. In one table dynamic and set up a lower 3b% might be more appropriate, maybe 5%. In another 12% might be right. And then, it's just a %. We can both have a 3B% of 7% and be 3-betting totally different strategies and spots, one of us a good one and one of us not.

The skill league scoring system places a strong emphasis on survival early in the tournament. Maybe when in contention for a top league spot, this forces one to take it to an extreme. But personally I don't think this is a terrible thing... one of the biggest leaks newer players and big losing players alike tend to have is leaking chips and punting their stack early in events. If you are a winning MTTer with a solid ROI then grind real money events and don't worry about nitting it up in skill league or even playing the skill league. If you're not, then adjusting your strategy early in events with an eye towards stack protection might not be a bad thing. You can still work towards accumulating chips, but will have to do so in a more controlled way... which happens to be how a lot of top mtters approach the early stages of tournaments.
Thank you for the feedback and advice

FYI reason why I shoved with those stated hands, part of my poker style as oppose to correct and I knew I was either the slight favorite at minimum or not due to the table conditions at the time, so I was not afraid to go racing.
 
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Wed Aug 27, 2014, 07:43 PM
(#7)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi MouZeAttacK
This is definately a case of adjusting your priorities; The OPEN is not the place to test your poker playing abilities.
The OPEN is a place to test your ability to play in the OPEN.
It has absolutely nothing to do with basic MTT strategies for the first 3 hours and very little after that.
sleepy


Quote:
Originally Posted by MouZeAttacK View Post
JWK24,

I consider myself a good reader in regards to the climate of the table, so when I do shove with these marginal hands I am usually confident that majority will fold and leave me with 1 or 2 minimum to contend with therefore it is basically a race/flip with the remaining player. This is reflective of my style of poker play and what I want to achieve at the table long term as opposed to the stated correct play.
 

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