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16NL fr tptk should I fold flop

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16NL fr tptk should I fold flop - Tue Jan 21, 2014, 09:16 AM
(#1)
tonydolphin's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 75


Villain 2 11/5/0 over 131 hands

I couldn't reraise the flop to isolate the short stack, as his all in wasn't a legitimate raise.

Was I right not leading out on the turn. I was taking a pot control line.
 
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Tue Jan 21, 2014, 10:51 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
I think bet/folding half pot with the intention of x/folding the river if called would give us better information as to the relative strength of our hand
 
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Tue Jan 21, 2014, 03:39 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi tony,

I agree with birdayy on bet/folding the turn, and c/f most rivers if called.

A couple valuable lessons/points in this hand! When you have a shorty, in a spot where you might like to reraise to iso if they move all in, size your betting to allow this option (assuming you don't have to make some huge adjustment in sizing). Here you bet 1.37 so a min-raise that reopens the betting to you would be 2.74... and he's got 2.67 behind. All it would take is a .04c adjustment in your sizing, bet 1.33, then his 2.67 shove is a full raise (min + .01c). Not that you need to reraise then, but the option is now available.

2nd point, regarding pot control. It's too late for that... the pot is already out of control, 9.93 in the middle and 12.85 effective behind. We generally want to take pot control lines when we have a hand that wants to get to showdown without playing a big pot/for stacks. Here the pot is already big with 2 betting rounds left, and the villain can confront us with stacks with only 2 modest bets (relative to the pot size). Whether it's best to bet/fold, bet/call, check/fold, c/c, or c/r depends on a number of things, reads, etc. Here I think bet/fold > check/call > check/fold. When we check, villain may just bet KQ/QJ/QT thinking he's good, so c/c > c/f imo. We can more comfortably c/f the river as his river value range is stronger. He still might think KQ is good though. Bet/fold is best imo because it denies a free river card option for him (which if he takes, he certainly can benefit from the free card where we can't) and his turn raising range should be significantly stronger than his betting range when checked to, allowing us to find a more comfortable fold.


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Tue Jan 21, 2014, 11:30 PM
(#4)
tonydolphin's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 75
Villain 2 had KK so I managed to save money in this spot.

I've had a terrible day today if I lose another $9 I will be moving back down to 10nl where they respect my raises lol.

It's a shame really because I honestly do believe a lot of the play in general at 16nl is a lot worse than 10nl. I wish my bankroll would allow me to stay here for a bit longer. The swings have been horrible. I have just looked at my all in equity graph for 16nl and my cash won is -$133 but my all in equity is only -$27. So I have definitely been running bad. I know I can beat this level.
 

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