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2NL FR Zoom - Calling shoves with AA

2NL FR Zoom - Calling shoves with AA - Tue Jan 21, 2014, 11:13 AM
IBNash's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 177
So every time I'm faced with this decision I lean towards calling. Sometimes if I have notes that the guy is a nitty set miner and is 5bet shoving my flop bet/re-raise, I fold - This is my attempt at learning to play deep stacked.

Should I be calling sometimes/if at all, say if I have notes that nitty opps will shove there with KK/set alone? I'm trying to understand if this is -EV over time. I started learning playing tourneys and would always be happy to ship it there.

Should I fist pump ship it/call shoves even if it's a draw heavy flop texture? I usually don't lose much to tilted short stacked shoves with KQ but sometimes I do and wonder if the 30-85c is worth calling down every time because hey it's AA.
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 12:44 PM
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
We aren't deep.

Just 5b shove pre.
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 02:09 PM
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
What purpose does flatting the 4-bet serve? Answer: None whatsoever.
5-bet and print money against a range that's likely to be QQ+/AK, which you're completely crushing.

As played, it's one of the worst flops imaginable for AA, as you're only beating AK, but the SPR is not much more than 2:1. I'm basically never folding an overpair at that price.

Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Tue Jan 21, 2014 at 02:12 PM..
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 02:26 PM
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
At the micros, enough people think that QQ and JJ are the pre-flop nuts (If 6max then QQ is good enough), and they will happily shove it.

Just keep shovelling the money into the middle with AA, I'd rather the money went in pre every single time, than calling and dealing with this kind of scenario.

There are times when there is an argument for flatting I guess but I am nowhere near skilled enough to know when I should get away from them after flatting.
Tue Jan 21, 2014, 04:45 PM
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi IBNash,

You are deep stacked in this hand, but the villain isn't. So, the most we are playing for is his 111bbs. Regardless of stack sizes, you are facing a 4 bet from early position. This is almost always going to be a value bet with a strong hand QQ+, and probably a villain willing to get all in preflop. You know for a fact you have the best hand, so 5 betting is going to be your best choice here. Keep it simple here.

As played, as Arty pointed out KK and QQ just got a set, but you are beating AK. Sets seem most likely looking at the action. If we assume that an A or J will win the pot for you that gives you 24% equity. Combined with the off chance that you are ahead now, the money in the pot and the spr, calling is probably ok, but I would not be fist pumping. This problem would have been avoided by simply 5betting preflop.

With deep stacked play in general, we still want to build the pot when we believe we are ahead. This gains us value. If both you and the villain were deep in this hand, you might call the preflop 4b with a hand like a smaller pair or or J10s even if you are pretty sure the villain has a big pair because the implied odds. Postflop we want to be careful though, if the action keeps escalating and we don't have the nuts.

Roland GTX

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