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Is this cheating or not in PSO league?

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Is this cheating or not in PSO league? - Wed Jan 22, 2014, 05:20 AM
(#1)
tonduluboy's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
BronzeStar
Well this january is my 1st serious PSO attempt to win something...

I was watching a table until i saw this one player (at the moment he is in TOP 10 PSO open skill league points ranking), he keeps getting disconnected /reconnected many times... So i thou he is having a bad internet connection... So...

So, i followed this guy for a few tourneys in 3 days in PSO tourneys, and he keep disconnected /reconnected at a certain limit such as when there are less than 3000 players left.

Advantages:
1. Everytime he disconnected or reconnected, he is getting 10 secs additional time multiple by around 4-6 times in just 1 hand!!!. That is 60 secs additional time. Normal player only get 10 secs additional time, before being auto fold.

2. He is getting more points and $$$ by NOT playing poker but by just abusing the discon/recon 10secs!

My points is, in this situation if I have 3000 chips left, while he got 1000 chips left, this is what will happen, if we both just wasting time till we blinded out, I WILL BE OUT SOONER THAN HIM, and he surely still playing. Becoz every 3 big blind i paid, he only pay 1 time due to manipulating the discon/recon time.

Obviously he is using a program or poker script or something to make his card disconnect and reconnect in 10 secs very accurate continously.

I have screen shoot showing his disconnected n reconnected for 2 diff tourneys in 2 different days... and i am getting FED UP looking at his strategy manupulating the 10 secs additional time to survive the tourneys.

While all players have 10secs additinal time for every hand, he got 60secs for everyhand every time he did it. Very UNFAIR for real poker players.

If ADMIN will say this is not cheating to win points in PSO, than i will also start using this guy strategy... Sooner or later everyone who want to win the PSO open league will start using it, and every table will be having diconnect/reconnect issue. LOL can u imagine that?

Last edited by tonduluboy; Wed Jan 22, 2014 at 05:23 AM..
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 05:27 AM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,024
(Community Coordinator)
Hello,

PokerSchoolOnline have no control over how a player uses the PokerStars software. If you genuinely think this player is abusing the system you should send an email to support@pokerstars.com and they will have one of their security team investigate the matter and take any appropriate action necessary.

Cheers,
Raiser

***Moved to Skill League***


Moderator

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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 05:37 AM
(#3)
tonduluboy's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
BronzeStar
Obviously he is abusing the system to win points, if you just follow him how he play u can see it clearly
and as PSO admin you can give warning to him to stop doing it.

Well i may just have to send pokerstars security email but by the time the they wanna check it, this guy may already won the PSO january month, n it is unfair for those who spend many many hours trying to compete fairly in PSO.
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 05:40 AM
(#4)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,024
(Community Coordinator)
Hello again,

Unfortunately there is nothing that PokerSchoolOnline can do. How players use the software is a matter between PokerStars and each individual player.

But by all means if you feel strongly about the situation please send PokerStars an email.

Cheers,
Raiser


Moderator

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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 06:50 AM
(#5)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
First of all it is not pure cheating, since anyone can disconnect and reconnect infinity times, but if that's fair or not to the game's integrity should be the real discussion.
I think open league's point awarding system favors that kind of behavior and it's nothing new, from my experience people have been slow folding for a long time.
Now disconnecting may seem a bit extreme, but in my opinion has no real difference than slow folding every hand.
It's just one step further in order to get a higher edge compared to the field.
I myself have been slow folding periodically and probably will continue doing it in the future, just because it is so much easier to get points that way.
But I don't support slow folding, or in this case disconnecting, because no one who is doing it increases his/her skill on poker, which should be the main purpose of the skill league.

Last edited by GamblingProp; Wed Jan 22, 2014 at 06:57 AM..
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 07:40 AM
(#6)
aspok123's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingProp View Post
But I don't support slow folding, or in this case disconnecting, because no one who is doing it increases his/her skill on poker, which should be the main purpose of the skill league.
Why do you think 10-15 seconds for decision is a long time?
You can play a few tables or even a few poker rooms at once, so I think this is up to your decision-you play less hands because of you hold them longer, so you have less chance to get the monster top hands due to the cards frequency.
So you know you have to play strong other hands if you hit one of them, but you risk tournament ITM while you have no chance to win $es in real money tournament just not playing at all.

PS OSL with its structure and negative points for finishing earlier determines other strategies than in usual poker tournaments and if someone wants play for top ranks there he have to adopt, because not playing at all to some level with something less than KK+ is more profitable than risking tournament life in first levels with AA, because of you get into multiway spots.

There is no way to learn play poker just playing OSL only, because of it specific "payout" structure, so It does not matter for me if someone slowplays there, because simply this OSL is only something like side event and do not even care what is going on on those tables, while it is not even a freeroll where you can win real money while each of them is worth 10$/100000 = $0.01, and only hiting BigBang or Premier ticket is easy way to play this OSL
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 03:32 PM
(#7)
tonduluboy's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
BronzeStar
i dont really care about the slow folding coz everyone doing it especially in the buble or any tourney when the $$$ is close.

The problem is abusing the disconnect and reconnect 10secs, where u can get additional more minutes.
Let say this guy using it 10 times in a tour, each time is 60secs, he will get additional "TIME BANK" for 10 minutes, where other players having same amount of chips already being blind out from the tourney.
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 03:34 PM
(#8)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonduluboy View Post
i dont really care about the slow folding coz everyone doing it especially in the buble or any tourney when the $$$ is close.

The problem is abusing the disconnect and reconnect 10secs, where u can get additional more minutes.
Let say this guy using it 10 times in a tour, each time is 60secs, he will get additional "TIME BANK" for 10 minutes, where other players having same amount of chips already being blind out from the tourney.

Thx for the tip......I will try it

Cheers
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 04:33 PM
(#9)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
Didn't read, but I've always suspected this - nice catch though fwiw.
 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 06:26 PM
(#10)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
How do you purposely disconnect?

I often slow fold the OSL - using the allocated time and sometimes the added timebank - but I am old and slow, so that is pretty much how I play any game.

If I disconnect, which I have never purposely done, it takes so long to reconnect that probably a couple of orbits have passed in which I will have been sat out and automatically insta-folded by the software. So I don't think I ever gained any time advantage by being disconnected.

If it is possible to 'manage' the potential disconnection time advantage then that is worrying - because I don't know how to take advantage of that. Once I do, I will abuse it until they change the rules.

Nobody is doing anything that is not available to you or me to do too. It may not be the best poker players that win the league but they definitely have the smarts.

Ed


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Jan 22, 2014, 06:30 PM
(#11)
CHILLI 2 U's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 395
ChromeStar

POST OF THE DAY AWARD never would ve thought of this, what a great idea, I knew about slow folding but geez never would ve thought of this one. Excellent catch!!! Well Done.....

This was meant as a slam against the stupidity of some peoples thought processes, wont be unplugged here


2012 Double Bracelet Winner

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Last edited by CHILLI 2 U; Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 11:41 PM..
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 05:08 AM
(#12)
aspok123's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 883
There is no need to slow play in PS OSL if you know you have best hand vs flippers with big stack because of they could not be able build such big stack at level IV - Aces full of Queens on flop-not so bad
Pre AI AQo flop fullhause >> big fish A6o @ PokerSchool Open Skill League - Level IV (50/100)

Maybe try finish in top 500-700 this month to try qualify for Premier or BigBang hit, but no time to play this OSL so far, but 1 week left so lets see what happends

Last edited by aspok123; Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 05:12 AM..
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 08:24 AM
(#13)
Snufkin_P's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Hi everyone,

Great strategy. I tried this out after the first break in the OSL as I had a very small amount and no chance of reaching the top 1440 even with time banking, but using this strategy I finished just outside the top 1300. I did not win a single hand and made VITM! I know this can happen anyway but the table was not playing slowly so I was estimating a top 1600 finish if I did not win a hand.

I'm going to try this out in the next tournament from the start and let you know how it goes. Ed, Tarek, and sleepy, or anyone who looks at the simplified OSL thread, do you think this is a strategy that should be mentioned in that thread?

Best wishes,
Snufkin_P
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 10:01 AM
(#14)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
I would advise people to NOT pull the plug out of their routers. If someone reports you to Stars security team (as recommended by royalraise in post #2), there's a good chance you will receive a warning for breaking the rules. Repeated abuse of the rules - aka cheating - can lead to a loss of playing privileges. i.e. you'll get banned.


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Last edited by TOO2COO; Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 04:04 PM.. Reason: Inappropriate expression
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 10:44 AM
(#15)
Snufkin_P's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 25
Further to my last post, some research has led me to believe that this does not work. I think that you may find that there is no way to do as described in post one of this thread. All I will say is that you definitely would not get 10 seconds for reconnecting continuously. However, it can be abused initially to gain 10 seconds and then, after a number of reconnections, the time is reduced to 1 or 2 seconds.

Whether this is cheating or not should be determined by PokerStars and it should be left to them to decide the punishment. I think, as Arty suggests, caution should be taken if using the strategy as the risk of being banned is possible.

Best wishes,
Snufkin_P
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 01:01 PM
(#16)
TweedleBeetl's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,146
I agree with Arty's sentiments. This is cheating and those who do this should get a warning from PS.

I think this can easily be done. It is true that my router takes too long to reconnect for this, but my laptop has a button to toggle the wireless radio on and off that would do nicely for this.

If I see people do this I will report them to PS in the hope of either getting something done about this or a clarification that this is allowed. If the latter turns out to be the case, I will have to decide my reaction (start doing this myself to even playing field, ignore it, or stop playing OSL)
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 04:21 PM
(#17)
85FastLane's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedleBeetl View Post
I agree with Arty's sentiments.
Me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedleBeetl View Post
my laptop has a button to toggle the wireless radio on and off that would do nicely for this.
Me too. Gunna have to give that a try.













JK, obv
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 08:43 PM
(#18)
lisbonbhoys's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 24
BronzeStar
I have long been suspicious of some of the things that go on in the open league but anytime i raise i usually get shot down , i agree with the general sentiments of the comments and to add to ur concerns i will input my biggest worry about the integrity of the game .
Take a look at the top players then ask if these players really are playing all the games they say they are on thier own ( AND I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT ) then when exactly do they sleep/work/have a life/etc etc etc , what really is annoying is that its an easy one to solve , as i have suggested on more than one occassion why not limit the amount of games u can participate in in any 24 hour period for example no more than 4 , easy to do and results in a league that is fairer to everyone and not just those who go an entire month playing poker with no sleep ( aye right lol )
 
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http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/forum/showthread.php?59814-Is-this-cheating-or-not-i - Fri Jan 24, 2014, 11:20 PM
(#19)
CHILLI 2 U's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 395
ChromeStar
There isn't a doctor on the friggin planet that will say that someone can stay up for an entire week 24/7 and still function at a sharp level as required to play holdem . unfortunately Pokerstars has continued to ignore this for years and years, good luck with convincing them now. Staying up 24/7 for 30 days is the norm here.


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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 11:37 PM
(#20)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
'Is this cheating'.

No - I don't think it is. It is most likely what we used to call 'ungentlemanly conduct'.

Because, like all the other ways people potentially abuse the league, there is no proof, and no way of ever proving, as far as I can see, if somebody is disconnecting voluntarily or not.

Just as there is no way of proving, if a large family of, say seven brothers/sisters from (insert country here) who live in a small room with one computer 'share' their internet connection and are all good at poker.

I think stars do their utmost, but there are many things beyond their control unless they really want to have a physical poker police force not just a cyber policing system.

The patterns of behavior that we see in the OSL should be tracked by Stars and queried - but it is almost impossible to say that one poker player could or could not consistently play well enough and smart enough and enough volume to take big prizes every month. Given the incentive of such large prizes for the few who succeed how do we know who is just smart and driven and deserves it and who is possibly abusing the system.

If there is one thing to learn here - for me it is to focus on your own game and what you can do to gain the maximum from what is on offer.

Ed


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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