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A8o Splits pot with AQs. Why?

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A8o Splits pot with AQs. Why? - Thu Jan 23, 2014, 07:02 AM
(#1)
Pokermancer8's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
Hello,

This is not big hand analysing replay but i just need help at understanding why we splitted the pot. I should have lost. Definately!

I also started noticing more of these situations where someone with low kicker get big pots where better hand cards gets much less money in some situations.



1. So 3 players have 3bets/allins. And why the chips splits/connects in 2piles?
2. Why we splited the pot?
3. Is there a guide somewhere i managed to overlook on how it works?

I do really want to understand this situation!
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 07:15 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I can't see the hand but the pots goes to the best 5 card hand.

The two starting hands you mention would split on boards such as theses:

88772 because both share the same 5 card hand ie. 8877A. The Q kicker doesn't play.

ATTK4 because both share the same hand ie AATTK. Again, the Q kicker doesn't play because there is a higher kicker on the board which does play.

If the board was ATTJ4 then AQ starting hand would win as the kicker is better than A9 ie. AATTQ beats AATTJ or AATT9.
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 07:22 AM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...ld-em-1386686/

Similar question asked over at 2+2. We're allowed to link to there according to the rules.
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 07:37 AM
(#4)
Pokermancer8's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
I can't see the hand but the pots goes to the best 5 card hand.

The two starting hands you mention would split on boards such as theses:

88772 because both share the same 5 card hand ie. 8877A. The Q kicker doesn't play.

ATTK4 because both share the same hand ie AATTK. Again, the Q kicker doesn't play because there is a higher kicker on the board which does play.

If the board was ATTJ4 then AQ starting hand would win as the kicker is better than A9 ie. AATTQ beats AATTJ or AATT9.

1. Preflop - 1,545(A8o) 3,855(77o) and 3,855(AQs)
2. Then its like 4,660 and 2,310 2,310.
3. After that its to piles of chips 4,660 and 4,620.

4. Then comes the flop with A in it. Does that matter that A is after the flop and NOT in the turn/river?
5. After all 5cards revealed AQs just takes 4,620 without splitting chips with me.
6. Then we split 4,660 chips.

On board there was KING.
7. Was this splitting the pot because there was no betting after the flop?
8. Would we split pot if there was no king on board?(highest kicker so it seems now)
9. This is too complicated, should i just drop the idea on understanding this?
10. Do great players "abuse/use this opportunities" to make higher bets or all-ins?

Is it okay that i ask this here? or should i got to some other forum thread?

Last edited by Pokermancer8; Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 07:55 AM..
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 07:43 AM
(#5)
Pokermancer8's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...ld-em-1386686/

Similar question asked over at 2+2. We're allowed to link to there according to the rules.
Thanks for that thread. It was interesting to read! But this situation does has 2pairs vs 2pairs. And villain taking 1pile of chips alone, and the second pile of chips splitting.
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 08:12 AM
(#6)
Quaquaversal's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 57
I hope I can explain this clearly, I'm rather new to poker let alone explaining poker problems.

Hero went all in yet invested less chips into the pot than the villains did, this creates a side pot between the two villains that invested more chips. You didn't pay for this pot, so you don't get to play for the pot.
Doesn't matter where the A is, its the best 5 card hand.
Villain 1 was playing 2 pair ( Jacks and Sevens ) with an ace kicker using the jacks and the ace from the board.
Villain 3 and you were playing a higher 2 pair ( Aces and Jacks ) with a king kicker, using the jacks, the ace and the king from the board, considering this is a better hand than you could've made with the Queen or the Eight playing, you both played the same hand.

You went all in with 1545, so you play for every bet up to 1545 and 1545 of any higher bet. 25 ( Small blind ) + 1545 ( you ) + 1545 ( Villain 1 ) + 1545 ( Villain 3 ) is the pot you play for, this all adds up to 4660.
In this pot, your aces and jacks with a king kicker beats Villain 1's jacks and sevens with an ace kicker, however it only ties with Villain 3's aces and jacks with a king kicker, the main pot is split 2 ways.

The side pot however, you didn't have enough chips to play for, so Villain 3's aces and jacks with a king kicker beats Villain 1's jacks and sevens with an ace kicker and he wins the remaining 4620 chips.

It doesn't matter at what point the chips go in, it always plays out this way.

P.S. I wouldn't recommend ever playing A8 that strong with a raise and a 3bet before you( It's likely atleast one of them has a better ace or pocket 8s or better, which would make you a big underdog ), you still had about 30 BB which is plenty to play for, I would've folded preflop.

Last edited by Quaquaversal; Thu Jan 23, 2014 at 08:17 AM..
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 08:39 AM
(#7)
Pokermancer8's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
Okay thats more clear for me. However, you say you would have folded preflop.

Lets assume after the flop neither of opponent went all in. And after the flop, you have two pairs with A8 or A2 in hand!

So its a big chance you will use boards highest card as your fifth card. So why its a bad call to continue fighting for the pot. Many players try their best with low kickers.

Anyway thanks for explaining. I think i had once a board where i always luckily escaped with low kicker, but im unsure if that was 2pair vs 2pair or 1pair vs 1pair.

I will definately hunt for similar hand scenario soon
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 08:40 AM
(#8)
MyNumber7's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 36
Hello, Pokermancer8!

Its because you both have the same 5card combination.
Your hand , here is your kicker.
Your opp hand , is your opp kicker.

This is the board

Your best 5 card combination is , dont play at this board anymore.
Your opp 5 card combination is (two pair with kicker), dont play at this board anymore cause there is the on the river which is higher than .

Lets say the river is . Full board . At this spot your opp wins cause now his best 5 combination is (two pair with kicker).

Hope this helped! If not, watch this video !

Good luck!
MyNumber7
 
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Thu Jan 23, 2014, 12:43 PM
(#9)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
** moved to Poker Education & Beginners Questions **


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:09 PM
(#10)
Pokermancer8's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 35
ADDON



------------------------
Preflop

Villain5(UTG) raise.
Villain7 call
Villain1 call.

After the flop

Villain5 all-in(1040)
Villain7 all-in(1855)
Villain1 all-in(1780)

1. If villain5 would preflop call. Then villain1 would not win sidepot?

2. This whole situation makes villain1 have the best odds preflop no matter what because he is after the raiser and only if it was multi-way pot?

3. Do you guys see such situations often?

It seems its better to risk when you have more chips just so you can still get the chips back if someone else wins the main pot.
 
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Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:20 PM
(#11)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,788
(Super-Moderator)
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villain 5 should open-shove. they only have 10BB

villain 5 IS the favorite preflop, as they have a premium pair

villain 5 IS ahead on the flop (they have a pair of kings, villain 1 has a pair of Q's, and villain 7 has a pair of 9's)

villain 7 should muck preflop. villain 1 may or may not call villain 5's shove (depends on their read of how loose they are). They should call if the opp is loose, muck if they are tight.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



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