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25NL 6Max Zoom - Rivered 2 pair

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25NL 6Max Zoom - Rivered 2 pair - Fri Jan 24, 2014, 02:31 PM
(#1)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496


Villain (462 hands): 28/20 VPIP in BB: 26%, AF: 2.67, WTSD: 30

Villain is a reg that likes to defend from the BB with a pretty wide range, e.g. A5o, KJ, 65s

The effective stack in this hand is about 175BB. Therefore I think it's right to just call villain's check/raise in position and see what happens? For the same reason I'm more than happy to call the Turn bet.

The river gives me Aces up and now I'm beating any AK/AQ hands that he might have played for value, but he continues to fire.

I thought that villain might take this line with sets and 53s but also maybe with missed draws and AK. Is this ranging right? Should I make the call?
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 03:00 PM
(#2)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
hmm not easy, want to add my two cents and try a more analytic way than I normally do :-)

You are opening from MP so his defending range should be a bit tighter than vs CO and BTN opens, but I guess if he likes to defend by calling with the hands you stated he still has A2s and A4s in his range OTR as well. So there are some value hands you beat that he is likely to take this line with.

So value hands we beat are A2s (2 combos) A4s (2 combos) and maybe some aggressively played AK AQ that he did not 3 bet pre, although that is a bit of an unlikely line imo since it would be pretty passive pre with AK and very aggressive postflop (especially with AQ) so maybe add like 4 combos of thoose in total (at most).

We get beaten by all his flopped sets: 22 (3 combos) and 44 (3 combos). I am gonna leave 53s out of his range, cause I dont think he calls that vs MP open if he calls with 53s he will call with A2o and A4o as well imo and that would widen the range we beat even more than the range we are beaten by, but I am gonna leave thoose hands out of his range here.

and he might bluff some FDs all the way although we block the NUT flush of course. So that would be a very aggressive line as well.

actually I just realize I dont have to keep on calculating here, since we can already see that its a call, mainly because of the A2 and A4 suited combination that he is likely to play that way if he really calls that wide pre.

looking forward to other oppinions

Upps, forgot that its deepstacked, so AK AQ is even more unlikely imo, but probably still call imo

Last edited by almigthybald; Fri Jan 24, 2014 at 03:16 PM..
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 03:24 PM
(#3)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Just wondering what do you do with AK?

If he has A4 A2 and you get to the river with AK and fold then what else do you get to the river with he can get value from after you call a flop x/r.

He would just be owning himself vs all your sets?

If you fold AK on a earlier street then it would be even worse for him to bet A2 A4, so that would mean when he bets the river he has sets and missed draws but does he bet that river with missed draws?

I have no idea if that river is a good 3 barrel bluff spot so i can t say and i also dont know how far you get with AK so if i happened to have A2 A4 i would check the river and maybe make a crying call.
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 03:49 PM
(#4)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
3rd barrel OTR it's very strong for me, you have blocker to flush draw I would call because there are hands like A2,A4 in his hand range , but I think he would never turn into bluff hands like AJ-AK. he wouldn't raise you OTF.
What about his raise cbet stat OTF?
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 03:54 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shichi-77 View Post
3rd barrel OTR it's very strong for me, you have blocker to flush draw I would call because there are hands like A2,A4 in his hand range , but I think he would never turn into bluff hands like AJ-AK. he wouldn't raise you OTF.
What about his raise cbet stat OTF?
Why would having the nut flush blocker give you more reason to call?

I would of thought having the A ourselves would remove alot of bluffs from his range.
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 04:03 PM
(#6)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Why would having the nut flush blocker give you more reason to call?

I would of thought having the A ourselves would remove alot of bluffs from his range.
I excluded bluffs from his hand range. sorry if written not clear.
 
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Fri Jan 24, 2014, 09:28 PM
(#7)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Snap that.
 
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Sat Jan 25, 2014, 02:53 AM
(#8)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Tough spot. We lose to sets and 35 here. I don't think villain plays AK/AQ this way. 56 and flush draws missed, that's good

I think we have to call when we beat A2/A4 but a combination analysis might sway me. This is not a snap call, imo at least.

I think, as an aside, you should check-back the flop. You have a top pair no kicker that happens to also have the nut flush draw. When you don't make your flush you aren't that comfy going for 2 streets, much less 3. If you check back flop and make the nuts, villains like this aren't going to know what hit them.
 
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Sat Jan 25, 2014, 05:59 AM
(#9)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
I think, as an aside, you should check-back the flop. You have a top pair no kicker that happens to also have the nut flush draw. When you don't make your flush you aren't that comfy going for 2 streets, much less 3. If you check back flop and make the nuts, villains like this aren't going to know what hit them.
Great point. My mind sort of automatically equated nut flush draw = nuts and I should be betting for value all the way.

In reality like you say I have top pair no kicker that might induce him to bluff on later streets.

FWIW I called and he showed 44.
 
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Sat Jan 25, 2014, 07:02 AM
(#10)
flight2night's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 59
like G's line pot control seems best here although stats say u have the brass ul he flopped well nice share spand def. food for thought

 
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Sat Jan 25, 2014, 10:03 AM
(#11)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Spand what do you do with AK no hearts?

Is that strong enough to call flop and turn because villain can have semi bluffs or should we fold it earlier with out reads?
 
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Sat Jan 25, 2014, 03:45 PM
(#12)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Spand what do you do with AK no hearts?

Is that strong enough to call flop and turn because villain can have semi bluffs or should we fold it earlier with out reads?
with AK no hearts I think bet/call flop, call turn, fold river is the line

I mean with a better read or a different villain, be a hero and fold turn. But vacuum I think we should call turn.
 
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Sat Jan 25, 2014, 03:48 PM
(#13)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
with AK no hearts I think bet/call flop, call turn, fold river is the line

I mean with a better read or a different villain, be a hero and fold turn. But vacuum I think we should call turn.
Ok cheers seems ive been abit nitty with AK then.
 

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