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Tight players don't win tournaments.

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Tight players don't win tournaments. - Sun Jan 26, 2014, 07:47 AM
(#1)
Quaquaversal's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 57
Do you agree with this expression?

I'm typically more of a LAG player in cash games but I find myself tightening up in MTT's, there's often a lot of shorter stacks which gives me less room to play with, and I usually have less information on players aswell due to the larger player pool.

Should I loosen up more in tournament play?
 
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Sun Jan 26, 2014, 08:09 AM
(#2)
magicius's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 90
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Well for mtt part you should start tight,cause a lot of people will be shoving some silly cards,but after a while you NEED to loosen or blinds will eat your stack..

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
 
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Sun Jan 26, 2014, 08:41 AM
(#3)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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Well, I've won plenty of tourneys. Here are my numbers from PT4. 15 VPIP 11 PFR sample size is almost 200k hands.

Unlike cash, tourneys are just as much about chip preservation as they are about accumulating chips and due to this, playing TAG is what works.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Jan 26, 2014, 05:38 PM
(#4)
slettuce's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 221
I'm super tight and have won my fair share MTTs.

I'm not trying to brag in any way, just wanted to add to what John said above, stack size awareness and making the right decisions will make winning tourneys a reality especially for us TAGS (or uberTag in my case).

It just works for me more often than not.

And winning big pots is sweet.

SL
 
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Mon Jan 27, 2014, 02:53 PM
(#5)
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Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 14
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Im slowly evolving into a much tighter player mainly due to playing the open league, and have noticed that keeping this style in both mtts (where im running deeper) and stt ( where the *****rs play all in with any paint) and my results are improving. I always consider that in an mtt the chips i dont lose are just as valuable as the chips i win.
 
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Tue Jan 28, 2014, 04:16 AM
(#6)
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Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,083
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the thing is early on you need to be verry tight but after w while when the blinds get higher you have to take some spots so at the start you have to play TAG but the closer you get to the end game the more you can losen up your game at list in my oppinion.


Triple Bracelet Winner

 
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Wed Jan 29, 2014, 08:23 AM
(#7)
TarekGG's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 157
I have to laugh of the fact that everyone tells you to play TAG. Imagine if the responses in this thread represented a full 9-handed table in a MTT - would you play tight aswell? The common play is to be tight and it has shown to be profitable no doubt about that. But in my opinion you are playing to win not to min. cash, and in order to play a straight forward TAG game you'll either need to abuse your image or just get a million good hands, or hit every flop.

And why would you play LAG in cash as opposed to in MTTs? The deep stacked poker in cash games makes shorter stacks the bullies due to implied odds, and in MTTs a big stack is a bully since he can knock a player out - you seem to have confused where it's best to do what. If LAGs you play, you should play LAG in MTTs aswell, if you feel it suits you better to play TAG in MTTs, then play TAG. But there are so many people who plays TAG, and if you take notice of that you'll be able to abuse a lot. There are different type of TAGs weak and strong, you'll just have to go with your gut.

Another thing I'd like to mention is that people claim they play tight in the beginning, but I see a lot of those people trying to see cheap flops with SCs, suited aces etc, if that's the case(they limp behind), you can just squeeze them out, you can just cbet a lot of flops where they wont really continue and pick up a lot of blinds. And the people who says it's not important or at any point significant to pick up the blinds early, you guys seem to have forgotten how willing people are to play rags in the beginning and when shown agression they fold, there's a lot of profitable spots at the beginning of every tournament. Lets say the blinds are 20/40, you raise BTN with K9s, SB and BB calls and the pot is now 240. Flop comes A28r, they check you bet half pot and SB calls, the pot is now 480. Turn comes brick T, you bet again they fold, hello 280 chips do that three times and if you start with either 1500chips or 3000chips you'll have a nice start.

Just do whatever you feel is right. It's just interesting to see people always tell other people to play tight because if that's the tip everyone gives to each other then who will profit the most?
 
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Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:13 PM
(#8)
SanNemo's Avatar
Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 1
and what is the strategy against those pushing all-in at early stages of mtt, forcing you to fold pretty good hands?
 
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Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:34 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanNemo View Post
and what is the strategy against those pushing all-in at early stages of mtt, forcing you to fold pretty good hands?
Wait for a premium hand, then call.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:40 PM
(#10)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Wait for a premium hand, then call.

John (JWK24)

or 27o...........

Cheers
 
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Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:53 PM
(#11)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Oh, Effsea - that's an interesting new look for you

My mom's so sad that the rumors about Rob Ford smoking crack turned out to be true ...
 
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Fri Jan 31, 2014, 01:00 PM
(#12)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Oh, Effsea - that's an interesting new look for you

My mom's so sad that the rumors about Rob Ford smoking crack turned out to be true ...

ya....a train wreck for sure....but l feel the new pic is fitting

Cheers
 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 04:00 AM
(#13)
slettuce's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
but l feel the new pic is fitting
ummm...you deserve a more fitting pic than that IMO (and I do "get it" - who,where,what etc).

but that's just me.

Maybe as a tribute to all the years you've put in, we should have a PSO members' "ideas" thread/poll, and you can set the number of entrants, closing date etc.......... and choose the winner or choose to keep the present one.




Last edited by slettuce; Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 04:19 AM.. Reason: sry...... "hic" ™- effsea ✈
 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 04:35 AM
(#14)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by effsea View Post
ya....a train wreck for sure....but l feel the new pic is fitting

Cheers
Tight players do win tourneys - just a small percentage of them...

And as for effsea - I used to smile every time I saw your old avatar - now I kind of wince.

Is that what you are going for??

Hiccup

Ed


4 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 06:29 AM
(#15)
EasyChips4U's Avatar
Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by slettuce View Post
I'm super tight and have won my fair share MTTs.


SL
Your fair share of MTTs???

Do U mean ur 1st place finishes in these sngs?

1. $1.00 90 man sng 06 Sep 13
2. $0.50 90 man sng 14 Aug 13
3. $0.10 360 man sng 13 Aug 13
4. $0.50 45 man sng 13 Aug 13

* Perhaps U should consider joinin the PSO HG 2014 and participating in the monthly series so that all of PSO can see ur prowess

Last edited by EasyChips4U; Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 06:53 AM.. Reason: Add-on
 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 08:58 AM
(#16)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
A LAG that knows what he's doing is the ultimate player in my books.

A good LAG plays the players and not just his cards. His wide range makes him unpredictable but he can pinpoint his opponents on a hand. His aggression alone wins him chips and he keeps pressure on every table and players. He may have high swings in a tournament but he knows his pot odds and won't go broke lightly.

Good LAGs are few and far between but the best players are good LAGs. They make their money by volume, they will go broke early in a lot tourneys but in the games they build a stack quickly, they rarely lose it and usually run deep.

A good LAG can play any style, they can tighten up when needed but when they do, their table image rarely gives this away.

These are the players I fear most and something I aspire too.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 10:11 AM
(#17)
slettuce's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyChips4U View Post
Your fair share of MTTs???

Do U mean ur 1st place finishes in these sngs?

1. $1.00 90 man sng 06 Sep 13
2. $0.50 90 man sng 14 Aug 13
3. $0.10 360 man sng 13 Aug 13
4. $0.50 45 man sng 13 Aug 13

* Perhaps U should consider joinin the PSO HG 2014 and participating in the monthly series so that all of PSO can see ur prowess

ummm....nice.

Sorry if my PokerStars stats aren't up to scratch yet, but I'm in no hurry and don't feel I need to prove myself to anyone but me.

I'm not a "horse", and have no desire to become one.

I would not make a comment online in the interest of someone's thread, on a public forum, using myself as an example...........if it didn't mean anything to me, or was not true. Especially on the biggest and most successful pokersite on the planet.


I apologize if this sounds "rude", I am just responding to your comment.


I've only been active on PokerStars since June 2013.


This thread title is "Tight players don't win tournaments" - I responded to this.


I have around ***** MTT 1st place finishes during (2010-2012).
It was trial and error in those days, I thought I was a champion until I really started working on my game thanks to PSO.

Without BRM and mindset those wins restricted my outlook on the big picture.


Bottom line is IME TAG players do win tournaments(that was the question), or maybe I'm just on another planet and completely missed the point of this thread's title.

I'm here to learn and to "loosen" up my game without loosing focus but gaining it.



I hope you understand this response.

I really didn't enjoy typing it at all, but am glad I did.

SL

Last edited by slettuce; Sat Feb 01, 2014 at 04:46 PM.. Reason: Edited info not important to this thread.
 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 11:41 AM
(#18)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I thought it was a cheap un-necessary dig as well


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 01:28 PM
(#19)
ouchbadbeat's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicius View Post
after a while you NEED to loosen or blinds will eat your stack..
yes



Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Unlike cash, tourneys are just as much about chip preservation as they are about accumulating chips
not really, most of the money is on the final table in MTTs

Quote:
Originally Posted by slettuce View Post
stack size awareness and making the right decisions will make winning tourneys a reality
very good point (being loose or tight is less important than being aware and adaptable)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncer1963 View Post
Im slowly evolving into a much tighter player mainly due to playing the open league
this is because the open league is not a true reflection of tournament poker. it is a league, and playing poker comes second to earning points in the league.

Quote:
I always consider that in an mtt the chips i dont lose are just as valuable as the chips i win.
in some cases yes but early on you shouldn't be worrying about this too much


Quote:
Originally Posted by adohole View Post
the thing is early on you need to be verry tight but after w while when the blinds get higher you have to take some spots so at the start you have to play TAG but the closer you get to the end game the more you can losen up your game at list in my oppinion.
idk, why do you need to be tight? blinds are small early on and as long as youre not spewing your stack away in bloated pots then you can play hands with decent potential. also something i dont think anyone has mentioned yet is that by playing looser early, your HUD stats/villains perception of you will be looser and this could get your good hands paid off later (if villains HUD shows you at 5/5 and you finally get a value hand, they will be more wary than if you're running at 23/18 etc)


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarekGG View Post
I have to laugh of the fact that everyone tells you to play TAG.
me too

Quote:
RLY LONG AND GOOD POST

Just do whatever you feel is right. It's just interesting to see people always tell other people to play tight because if that's the tip everyone gives to each other then who will profit the most?
nice post, the last bit is the key bit...adapt to the table/situation, its not black and white

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanNemo View Post
and what is the strategy against those pushing all-in at early stages of mtt, forcing you to fold pretty good hands?
make sure you have a better hand


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovalman View Post
A LAG that knows what he's doing is the ultimate player in my books.

A good LAG plays the players and not just his cards. His wide range makes him unpredictable but he can pinpoint his opponents on a hand. His aggression alone wins him chips and he keeps pressure on every table and players. He may have high swings in a tournament but he knows his pot odds and won't go broke lightly.

Good LAGs are few and far between but the best players are good LAGs. They make their money by volume, they will go broke early in a lot tourneys but in the games they build a stack quickly, they rarely lose it and usually run deep.

A good LAG can play any style, they can tighten up when needed but when they do, their table image rarely gives this away.

These are the players I fear most and something I aspire too.
i really like this post, as this sounds like a lot of mtt sickos. the very last line is great, because in poker it should be your goal to be the person that others fear playing



did not respond to other posts as they are highly irrelevant and just bulk up this thread with unneeded Spambolaya

 
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Sat Feb 01, 2014, 01:35 PM
(#20)
auntyrae's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 426
Some excellent points singled out there OBB
 

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