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All In PF with QQ

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All In PF with QQ - Tue Feb 04, 2014, 01:23 PM
(#1)
Michae2005's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 122
Hi all

My question on this hand is, should I be getting it all in PF? I don’t have the stats on the player at the time of the hand but I know I have tagged them as a NIT, I know I have played 50+ hands with them and there VPIP would have been -10%. The way it played out should I have known I was behind? Are there many hands that in betting here?




Thanks for all the help
 
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Tue Feb 04, 2014, 11:18 PM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
4betting here is spew given the positions.

Our sizing is also really bad.

Just call and take a flop. If he's a nit then there's almost an argument for folding...
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:17 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi Michae2005

As a general rule, I don't call 3b when out of position. I either 4b or fold. Here you make an utg raise signaling that you have a strong range. The villain still chooses to 3b which puts him on a strong range. To this we can add that this guy is quite nitty. I would actually fold to the 3b. None of your other options are that good. If you call the 3b, you are going to have a very hard time postflop and will are basically set mining, but not getting great odds for that. However, many really tight players at 2NL that have a tendancy to get married to big pairs KK and AA. So, if you do flop a set, there is a good chance you can win his stack. If stacks were deeper, I would be happy calling. 4betting basically turns your hand into a bluff since we will have to fold to a 5b, especially given the positions and read on the villain. It will fold out hands like AK that you may be beating, narrowing his continuing range to the two hands beating you. If this were a blind vs blind situation where ranges are wider, then we could consider 4b or calling as options. Here though I would avoid the situation all together and just fold to the 3b.

As a general rule, the only two hands I want to get all in with preflop are KK and AA.

GL and have fun at the tables!
Roland GTX
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:19 AM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
We should have a 3b calling range OOP Roland.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:52 AM
(#5)
chuckkky's Avatar
Since: Dec 2010
Posts: 913
Just my 2cents worth

When they are nitty and 3 bet and your out of position just call pre flop.
Then check raise them on any flop and watch them slow right down, because they will think you could have a set.
probably the cheapest way to get to show down.
Odds are they will check behind on turn and you can lead out a third of pot on river and they will probably just call. But if they keep firing it's time to give up.
Yeh but my cash game stats suck no don't blame me if it doesn't work

Chuckkky
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 03:19 AM
(#6)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
We should have a 3b calling range OOP Roland.
I agree in general, but not necessarily from ep AND against a nitty player. Moreover, not many players at 2NL are exploiting villain fold to 3b%. In this situation we don't need to balance our range, but can focus on the value end only. I don't think calling preflop is necessarily a mistake, but it does lead to a bad postflop situation that will often be filled with expensive mistakes.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 03:34 AM
(#7)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Perhaps I misunderstood you birdayy. My point above refers to this particular hand. If you meant my general comment about my own style. I said that I normally fold or 4b when oop which is true. I don't have a calling range of hands that can stand alone. I need other factors in the hand to consider calling oop. For example, good notes on the villain that I can exploit, deep stacks making it worth the risk, multiple opponents and/or late position leveling wars where I expect the villain's 3b range to be quite wide. This may be exploitable at higher levels, but at the microstakes it keeps my losses to a minimum.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 03:41 AM
(#8)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Understood Roland.

I meant as a gameplan, not as this hand.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:54 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
You can call the 3-bet and go set-mining here with QQ-99. Since villain's hand is face up as QQ+/AK*, you can call the 14c and win his stack when the board comes Qxx. (By check-calling flop, check-raising turn).
You just have to have the discipline to fold an overpair on the flop. Sometimes this means you'll let him win when he c-bets with AK high, but this nit is never getting away from KK+ overpairs, so your implied odds are great for the times you flop a set.
If villain started with less than 100bb, then just fold, as you don't have a good price.

* FWIW, If I'm villain, I have KK+ every time in this spot. In a full ring 2NL game, you shouldn't be 3-betting vs UTG with anything less.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 08:41 PM
(#10)
Michae2005's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 122
Thanks for all the advice some interesting points
 

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