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25NL - 150bb effective stack BvB Turn line after flop float

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25NL - 150bb effective stack BvB Turn line after flop float - Wed Feb 05, 2014, 08:08 AM
(#1)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hey guys,

Here's a hand that I played against a regular who according to my stats is losing over a sample of 324 hands. They are playing 24/20/3. they are opening pretty wide from the BTN and SB and we are not going anywhere with QJ in the BB.

Villain has a high flop and turn cbet. I decided to float this flop with two overs and a backdoor straight expecting them to barrel scare cards and check on cards lower than a 9; In which case I was planning to bet everytime they check the turn to us looking to get folds from Kx, and Ax.

The turn brings and overcard and gives us a gutter and as expected villain fires a second round. What's the best line here, and what are the considerations you would take into account?

I was contemplating a turn raise and check back river when they call and we miss or call turn and bet river when they check to us. What do you think?

 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 11:13 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
I think you are going to have a lot of better hands in your flop calling range. If we are calling QJo here we are calling with basically our entire range and I think that's bad.

That being said on this turn I would expect him to barrel a lot, so I would call turn to keep our range the widest and bet if checked OTR or fold if triple barreled.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 12:35 PM
(#3)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
On the contrary I think birdayy, we are in the best case scenario playing HU IP vs a wide range. I'd expect a 24/20 to be opening their SB with like 30%; I'm definitely calling wider than QJ BvB here.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 12:47 PM
(#4)
tonydolphin's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 75
Why would you float someone with a high turn cbet? I would fold the turn there will be plenty of better spots on later hands against this player.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 01:16 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
If your gonna float the flop you cant fold that turn if he is barreling his entire range, i would rather raise the turn its cheaper to raise the turn rep a stronger hand than call and bet the river when checked to.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:04 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
I like the Birdman's line, but I also agree with Tony about this not being the kind of player you should float. Pick on the one-and-done merchants if you want to try floating.
FWIW, I think 9-high flops are good to float in general if you have QJs or JTs, since an awful lot of turn cards will improve your equity. That said, I'd additionally want a backdoor flush draw instead of just offsuit overcards like QJo.

As played, I don't like raising the turn much. What would you be repping?


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Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Wed Feb 05, 2014 at 02:08 PM..
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:21 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
I like the Birdman's line, but I also agree with Tony about this not being the kind of player you should float. Pick on the one-and-done merchants if you want to try floating.
FWIW, I think 9-high flops are good to float in general if you have QJs or JTs, since an awful lot of turn cards will improve your equity. That said, I'd additionally want a backdoor flush draw instead of just offsuit overcards like QJo.

As played, I don't like raising the turn much. What would you be repping?
I would have all sets except KK if i raised the turn and for all he knows K9s plus i would be raising a card that hits his range more than mine so he will have to fold a ton.

If he does call here with Kx he will find i have him crushed more times than im bluffing i cant say ive tried it though as i havent found anyone barreling the turn a ton at 5nl so i would fold flop as you said but i thought it was a good idea when i saw the hand.

Even if you did call the turn and bet the river when checked to its gonna cost more than to raise now and if you do hit the river and you catch him with a hand he is willing to call it off with your gonna get a stack but if he is barreling the turn with everything he will fold alot anyway.

If we don't know how often he 3 barrels how can you float again on the turn anyway we might be calling to take away a pot and find out he will barrel the river alot where he might just of folded the turn.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 04:14 PM
(#8)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Good points you make guys about not floating against such an opponent; I think in general against someone who cbets alot and double barrels then its better to raise flop than to face a double barrel but on this flop of 9 5 2 we can't rep much if we do raise and I think this opponent will notice that. Also there is more money to be made when we try and exploit their aggressive turn barrels when we raise and they fold. I honestly floated because of two overs and backdoor straight. Obviously had we had a backdoor flush that would amount for a bit more too.
 
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Fri Feb 07, 2014, 06:24 AM
(#9)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Pre you can get into an argument for and against 3-betting, so since calling is perfectly fine let's not get into that here. But sth to seriously consider before flatting pre is: How good do you feel you can handle your average villain or this specific villain postflop when you miss (like in this spot)?

Flop peel is a little too loose in my eyes, I would float better overs (preferably Ax) as well as the hands that at least have some extra backdoor potential like QJs or QJo on a 2-suited board.

Against a villain who is aggressive OTF and OTT on average with barreling there won't be too many good spots for us to turn on his aggression.

As played I guess you can pick the street for your play yourself depending on how aggressive/straightforward/nitty you perceive villain. You could raise turn if you feel like villain may get stubborn OTR or wait until the river if you feel like the average reg here just fires two and will be done after that often enough.


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Last edited by PSO-xflixx; Fri Feb 07, 2014 at 06:27 AM..
 

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