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Zoom downswings

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Zoom downswings - Wed Feb 05, 2014, 12:29 PM
(#1)
Justinovskis's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Hey guys


I'm having trouble dealing with downswings playing zoom at the moment and it's normal to lose 2-3 BI in 2 hour sessions ? Kinda swingy, like one day im up 2-3 buy ins, next day i might lose 1-2 BI...

Had a great run at 5NL, and rarely had any 'red' days, and in 10NL it becomes more often...
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 12:42 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
At Zoom you can drop 2-3 BI in a few minutes never mind a couple of hours and make it back just as quick. You really are turning hands over at a high rate. Given the nature of Zoom it's harder to get a handle on your table on any hand as at the micros the pools are huge.

I've a thread over in challenges and battleground. Look at some of the graphs in it lately. Huge swings. Maybe I am playing erratically but it shows how you can be up and down in short periods.

I'm new to 6 max though and still finding my feet.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 02:17 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
I once lost 5 stacks in 45 hands, so 2-3 BIs in 2 hours is nothing, frankly. If the fast pace of coolers is tilting you, then switch to regular tables.
As you move up stakes, you'll have a smaller edge on the field, so you'll be at the mercy of longer downswings. Fixing any mental game leaks will be crucial, as you can't afford to tilt off a couple of buy-ins if your overall winrate is less than 5bb/100, which would be fairly standard at 10NL+.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 03:00 PM
(#4)
MrFlopes's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
I don't have big downswings but i do get a lot of breaking even stretches. Taking a break from Zoom now (35k hands breakin even.). Changed to regular tables and in 5k hands i'm up 8 buy-ins. Never see that in zoom, more like a slow griind. No more Zoom this month for me.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 09:53 PM
(#5)
pockettones's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 151
2-3 BI in a 2 hour session is very common, I have them all the time (I play around 700 per hour but normal tables). Just focus on making good decisions, you cant control short-term results so don't worry about it.
 
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Wed Feb 05, 2014, 11:19 PM
(#6)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
I'd agree with most peoples sentiments here. 2-3 buy-ins is essentially nothing in the grand scheme of things. In fact I've lost that in just one hand before. In a single session I've gone from 3 stacks up to 6 or 7 down then back to break even. You can't always help swings and if you're struggling in coping with them I'd say it's important to remember long term results are what matter.

Easier said than done, I know.



Tournament of Champions Winner 2013

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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:13 AM
(#7)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

For me, it affects me by how much I play.

I have recently just lost a 3BI in a couple of sessions at 2nl Zoom (mainly due to my KK being up against AA). I think the difficultly I have is that I don't play enough poker. Due to job commiments and spending time with the family I am only able to play just under 5,000 hands a week, and so for me the downswings last longer du to not being able to put enough volume in.

If I could put in that extra volume, the downswings wouldn't last as long (provided that I am a winning player) - Although you will ecounter them more often, but at least I will be going through it quicker.


Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:45 AM
(#8)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
10 BI swings in a day aren't unheard of.
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:11 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
< Currently on 8 buy-in downswing in last 800 hands.

Losing at 100bb/100 is FUN!

:pukes:


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 06:30 PM
(#10)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Sick Arty,

I don't think I have had more than a 5 buy-in downswing, and yet I moan about my breakeven Stretches. This may be a funny thing to say, but do you guys agree, playing too safe, e.g. Not going for thin value, etc, you won't maximise you win rate, but at the other end spectrum you won't have the big downswings. The reason why I mention this, Is that my graph appears to increase quite steady that not very swingy, compared to other people's graph who are achieving better profits, but have swinger graphs.

Anyone confirm this?

The answer: possibly stop playing like a nit?

After writing this I think that it is true.

Pullin

Last edited by pullin1988; Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 06:34 PM..
 
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Fri Feb 07, 2014, 07:02 AM
(#11)
MrFlopes's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
Yeah, pullin, i get exactly that. I'm not stacking pre with less than KK and in the flop with less than a set. Also, not making those huge hero calls when a ridiculous bet that so looks that a bluff is made. I guess this style contributes to a steady low grind. I go for thin value, though.



This is Zoom. Steady grind, horrible break-even stretches. I'll try and play 100k hands at regular tables and compare the graph i get with this one, maybe getting to some kind of insight.
 
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Fri Feb 07, 2014, 07:20 AM
(#12)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Awesome MrFlopes, let me know how it goes. I just want to be able to put in more volume - I still haven't reached 100k hands since I have started playing poker.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Fri Feb 07, 2014, 05:54 PM
(#13)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin1988 View Post
Anyone confirm this?
I can confirm this.
Mathematically speaking, "variance" is defined as the square of the standard deviation. Nits tend to have low standard deviation numbers. Since they don't play many pots, their stacks don't get many opportunities to grow (or shrink) drastically. Nits' profits and losses won't deviate much from their averages (if you fold pre, your stack size stays the same), so they tend to experience lower variance than the LAGs, who are by contrast, involved in many more pots and do more semi-bluffing.

Part of the reason for my crazy downswing is that I've been experiementing with a laggier style. I've certainly made a few bad calls/stack offs while out of my usual comfort zone, but I've also had a string of sick coolers, like king-high flush vs nut flush, and flopped nut fluch vs flopped straight flush. Not winning any of my AK vs QQ races isn't helping too much either. I'll turn things around though. I've had at least one downswing that was worse than this before, and I'm not yet in danger of going busto.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 11:43 AM
(#14)
A Beatmaker's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 74
Reacentle had 14BI downswing. Started doubting tha i was on heater till then. 10BI downswing every weak
Rolercouster ooo weeee.
NL5 6max ZOOM





even at NL2 6max ZOOM with winrate ~10bb/100 had downswing 10BI



Solution. Shoud have big roll and dont look atleast a week. Sleeps beter and plays also.

You can try this to feel how variance can be merciless.
http://pokerdope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

Last edited by A Beatmaker; Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 11:53 AM..
 

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