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rules question - Thu Feb 06, 2014, 03:47 AM
(#1)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Are mobs/crews allowed I.E several players playing the same game or tournament (or series etc) and swapping or pooling a % of those games with each other.. and if this is ok how should the arrangement be managed.
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:20 AM
(#2)
TOO2COO's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stix144 View Post
Are mobs/crews allowed I.E several players playing the same game or tournament (or series etc) and swapping or pooling a % of those games with each other.. and if this is ok how should the arrangement be managed.
Hello stix,

I would email this question to support@pokerstars.com as they will be able to help.

As for doing this thru PSO, if you would like to find the info on what is allowed with staking here please read the staking rules.

Thanks for being part of PSO, and Best of Luck at the Tables 

Brian


Super-Moderator

7 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 09:03 AM
(#3)
DrDonkin's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 874
Profit sharing is allowed but i would keep it to MTT only as its only allowed in fields of 100+, i team MTT all the time and is a great way to spread the variance because if you bust before ITM you can still get a little return and if they go deep or even final table can even profit nicely.

We use a formula to work out how to share the money which is easy to use and seems fair for all, i will ask if i can share the formula and send you it you by PM.

Last edited by DrDonkin; Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 09:07 AM..
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 09:30 AM
(#4)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDonkin View Post
Profit sharing is allowed but i would keep it to MTT only as its only allowed in fields of 100+, i team MTT all the time and is a great way to spread the variance because if you bust before ITM you can still get a little return and if they go deep or even final table can even profit nicely.

We use a formula to work out how to share the money which is easy to use and seems fair for all, i will ask if i can share the formula and send you it you by PM.
Thanks doc.. No need to send anything. The practical side of organizing it. And the stars rules are all things that are familiar to everyone who would be participating, but thank you very much for the offer and the reply
It was just a check to see if we were allowed to make the arrangements through a pso thread

Last edited by stix144; Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 09:35 AM..
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 09:32 AM
(#5)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOO2COO View Post
Hello stix,

I would email this question to support@pokerstars.com as they will be able to help.

As for doing this thru PSO, if you would like to find the info on what is allowed with staking here please read the staking rules.

Thanks for being part of PSO, and Best of Luck at the Tables 

Brian
Thanks Brian.
I might be missing it but I cant seem to find any specific reference to swapping arrangements being conducted through pso as opposed to selling (or is this considered the same) my main questions are:
Is arranging a mob permitted through a pso thread. and if so can it be done openly in our HQ thread for example, or does it need to be posted in the staking section so that the staking rules cover the arrangement too.

If you don't mind could you explain that in layman's terms for us please
Thank you

Last edited by stix144; Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 09:38 AM..
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 02:42 PM
(#6)
stevopick's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 170
I have enough trouble cashing in MTT's
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have to face a TEAM of players.....with all players....NOT just a single horse with backers. Wow.......I would never enter another MTT having to face a TEAM of players all with vested interest in a collective money pool. NO WAY!!....Am I understanding this thread properly??


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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 02:51 PM
(#7)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevopick View Post
I have enough trouble cashing in MTT's
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have to face a TEAM of players.....with all players....NOT just a single horse with backers. Wow.......I would never enter another MTT having to face a TEAM of players all with vested interest in a collective money pool. NO WAY!!....Am I understanding this thread properly??

yes.. I think you are reading it properly. And fwiw I would bet that many MTT's you have played in have had players who have crewed them.. If it were permitted to post links to external sources, I could point you at 100's of examples of it being arranged and implemented.

It is not a team though. It is purely a % (usually 10%) of any winnings that each player earns that is pooled, And then divided up at the end.
It is no different to if you purchased shares in a player here.. Then played in the same tourney as them.. You would after all have a vested interest in both your success and theirs

It is perfectly within the cardroom rules, below is the email I received when clarifying the issue months ago. I have bolded the relevant points.



Thank you for your email about PokerStars' rules on staking arrangements. PokerStars considers staking to be a mutually agreed relationship, whereby some (or all) of a player's winnings are given to another player.

PokerStars allows staking and staking agreements between players to play on PokerStars, but will not participate in settling such agreements or be involved in any dispute between parties.

What we do not allow is the misuse or abuse of our player-to-player transfer system, such as transfer of funds solely to be cashed out. The person who played and won money should cash out the funds and make payment arrangements off site.

Transfers are allowed where the receiver of the funds uses the funds in order to play on PokerStars. Players that are part of staking agreement must be aware that transfers and cashouts from and to their accounts will be reviewed, and may be declined if we find that players are abusing the transfer system. In extreme cases, players could face account suspension or termination.

It should also be noted that Affiliates cannot use their Affiliate Account for staking deals. All such arrangements should be done using their playing account.

In addition to the financial rules described above, PokerStars' rules on the game play involving a staking relationship are very clear:

"If you are involved in staking, swaps, profit-sharing, or any kind of bankroll sharing agreement with another player, you may not play at the same cash game table or in the same Sit & Go tournament as that player."

The full copy of our Poker Room Rules are available on our website at:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/policies/

Thus, PokerStars allows two players who have a staking arrangement to play in the same multi-table tournament. If both players meet at the same table, they must play against each other as aggressively as they would against any other player - they must make decisions in each of their own best interest (and not make plays that are intended to assist their partner or their results as a team).

I trust that this email clarifies our position on the matter, but if you have further queries, please feel free to write back any time.

Regards,

Ericka B.
PokerStars Security Team

Last edited by stix144; Thu Feb 06, 2014 at 02:58 PM..
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:11 PM
(#8)
TOO2COO's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,882
(Super-Moderator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stix144 View Post
Thanks Brian.
I might be missing it but I cant seem to find any specific reference to swapping arrangements being conducted through pso as opposed to selling (or is this considered the same) my main questions are:
Is arranging a mob permitted through a pso thread. and if so can it be done openly in our HQ thread for example, or does it need to be posted in the staking section so that the staking rules cover the arrangement too.

If you don't mind could you explain that in layman's terms for us please
Thank you

Hello stix,

Layman's terms NO this is not allowed at PSO.

After reviewing the staking rules and talking with others on the team this is not something we have allowed in the past and will not be a part of moving forward.

We allow members to sell shares for there events but do not allow a team of members to sell shares to events.

Hope that makes since.

Thanks for being part of PSO, and Best of Luck at the Tables 

Brian


Super-Moderator

7 Time Bracelet Winner



 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:12 PM
(#9)
DrDonkin's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevopick View Post
I have enough trouble cashing in MTT's
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have to face a TEAM of players.....with all players....NOT just a single horse with backers. Wow.......I would never enter another MTT having to face a TEAM of players all with vested interest in a collective money pool. NO WAY!!....Am I understanding this thread properly??
Have you not noticed all the team logo avatars in MTT's there's a fare few out there that iv noticed and i imagine there all teaming/profit sharing, like i said in my earlier post its a great way to spread the variance if you bust before ITM and the other player/players go on to cash you will get a little something back maybe half a buy in or so but if they go deep you can even make a small profit.

What you should be concerned about is players not abiding by the rules and using multiple accounts to team MTT's and according to a thread i read on another forum this actually does happen, Im not sure how widespread it is and all you can do is be observant on the tables and report anything you seem suspect and let the security team do there work.
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:27 PM
(#10)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDonkin View Post
Have you not noticed all the team logo avatars in MTT's there's a fare few out there that iv noticed and i imagine there all teaming/profit sharing, like i said in my earlier post its a great way to spread the variance if you bust before ITM and the other player/players go on to cash you will get a little something back maybe half a buy in or so but if they go deep you can even make a small profit.

What you should be concerned about is players not abiding by the rules and using multiple accounts to team MTT's and according to a thread i read on another forum this actually does happen, Im not sure how widespread it is and all you can do is be observant on the tables and report anything you seem suspect and let the security team do there work.
Very good point.. Multiple accounts and any form of collusion is where the real risks to fair play lie! and I am all for stamping on that when it occurs and from what I understand the security team are excellent at spotting it too, I have known of players getting refunds for their buy ins in large tournys because collusion was detected between other players.
I was sat with someone once who got donked in a scoop game.. He then declared to the table.. "oh it's ok I have got 20k stack in this game on my other id" I have never mailed support so quickly in my life
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 04:29 PM
(#11)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOO2COO View Post
Hello stix,

Layman's terms NO this is not allowed at PSO.

After reviewing the staking rules and talking with others on the team this is not something we have allowed in the past and will not be a part of moving forward.

We allow members to sell shares for there events but do not allow a team of members to sell shares to events.

Hope that makes since.

Thanks for being part of PSO, and Best of Luck at the Tables 

Brian
Thanks Brian
It's understood clearly now
And thanks for taking the time to look at the situation and reviewing it too
 
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Sun Feb 09, 2014, 06:18 PM
(#12)
anti5ive's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 225
Quote:
I have known of players getting refunds for their buy ins in large tournys because collusion was detected between other players.

Read more: rules question - PokerSchoolOnline Forum http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz2sruyP800
i have had buyin refunds and moved up ladder in sng's by other player collusions, easy to spot really. also got arefund for not actual colluding but classsed as "very soft play" stars are great at getting rid of players who collude.
anyone who suspects just make sure you have tourney number and player id's.. it can take weeks (if stars think its really bad) or just a few days. but always sorted out one way or another.
as for team sharing or whatever its called, only way to play them fairly i think is a closed forum game, ie: here there are 4 teams picked team A,B,C,D then there are no outsiders.
just my tuppence worth
 

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