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98s BU vs CO

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98s BU vs CO - Thu Feb 06, 2014, 10:05 AM
(#1)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Is 98s a fold vs a CO open when your on the BU? I keep seeing players folding here on vids im watching with no explanation as to why so i get the feeling its standard to fold yet i call pretty much all the time.

I also read in a book ages ago i think it was in the poker blueprint that you should fold 98s vs a UTG open as well, any one know of any vid that explains these spots?
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 11:52 AM
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bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I would open raise suited connectors, the bigger ones at least, from anywhere but against a raise would fold. If there is a raise and a call or two then I would tend to come along for the ride.

The basic premise of this is that it plays well in a multi-way pot where you have the right odds and implied odds to see a flop. Heads-up, you need to flop well and be able to get paid, which against a late position raise isn't always what will happen.

That's my take on it, probably nonsense, but it's a good question and I will be interested on what better players say.
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 12:21 PM
(#3)
who's 1st?'s Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 83
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Is 98s a fold vs a CO open when your on the BU? I keep seeing players folding here on vids im watching with no explanation as to why so i get the feeling its standard to fold yet i call pretty much all the time.

I also read in a book ages ago i think it was in the poker blueprint that you should fold 98s vs a UTG open as well, any one know of any vid that explains these spots?



I would flat call if the raise 3bb 4bb even sometimes 5bb it would be a great hand to break a player with high pairs even low pairs would be weary you could really hurt a player with that hand
 
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Thu Feb 06, 2014, 08:26 PM
(#4)
Bouncer1963's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 14
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I think it depends on how well you know the player in the cutoff or late position. If they regularly try and steal then certainly call or even raise them although be aware that the blinds may wake up with a hand or even decide that the pot is juicy enough to get involved. Certainly as has already been mentioned these types of hands can yield huge wins if you can tag along in a multiway pot but if you dont get a huge piece of the flop be prepared to toss em away.
 
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Fri Feb 07, 2014, 05:39 PM
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Tyirl's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
I guess this might indicate one of the reasons that my vpip is too high. I don't think I ever considered folding 98s on the button vs a single opener, unless the guy has a really small stack size. To me it's a flat or 3bet depending on the raiser and who is in the blinds/stack sizes. I dunno.
 
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Fri Feb 07, 2014, 06:19 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
I was thinking about this exact hand today, actually, as I noticed that a certain poker bot never calls with 98s except in the BB, when it's always been a (break-even) call for me.

I think it comes down to the lack of implied odds.

Vs An EP opener you won't get a paid off on the boards you hit, because flops like 986 or JT7 are too scary for overpairs to commit on.
Vs a late position opener, you won't get paid off when you hit, because the CO never has a big hand in the first place.

There's also the problem that you could hit the idiot end of a straight and only get action from the nuts. (98 vs AK on QJT is just horrendous).
To this extent, you're actually better off playing 65s, because you're hardly ever dominated when straights are possible, and you could double thru Ax when the board contains wheel cards. (You're loving life with 65s vs A5s or any overpair on 432).


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Feb 08, 2014, 02:16 PM
(#7)
Tyirl's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
Oh, that makes a lot of sense Arty! I can see that I need to think about what kinds of hands I might hit with certain starting hands more.

I have been thinking that 98s was basically about the same as T9s, but I realize now that T9s is certainly much better considering what kinds of straights you can make. T9 is a lot less likely to hit the bad end of a straight. It's still possible if the villain has AT, but less likely for them to have a T when we have one. JT is great for straights since every straight they make (that uses both the J and T) is a nut straight as far as I can tell.

Interesting
 

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