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Live 'Second Chance' Format

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Live 'Second Chance' Format - Tue Feb 11, 2014, 01:10 AM
(#1)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Hey guys,

I'm playing an ANZPT (australian new zealand poker tour) event which has a 'Second Chance' format.

This means you get 100bb starting stack with a 'Second Chance' card which can be exchanged for another starting stack.

This means you could play with the first stack, get stacked, then start over, OR add on straight away and cover everyone with 200bb.

I think it's better to add on straight away to cover all the fish but not sure what you guys think?

Maybe Dave or someone who knows more about livaments could comment?

Level are 30 minutes btw.
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 04:15 AM
(#2)
TweedleBeetl's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,146
This Second Chance format would be handy in the OSL.
Try for a double up early against the 100% all-in guys and if it fails revert to the standard game with second stack. If you survive add the second stack and you are in a good position. (can you add the second stack if you are over 100bb?)

In a reasonable tournament I would double my stack immediately.
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 05:49 AM
(#3)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
Depends what everyone else on the table does - I don't like to be shortstacked compared to everyone else.

However I think the blind levels are the critical factor. I think 100BB is deep enough to play with, if the next blind level means you only have 50BB, then I'd take the second chance at this second blind level.

At these live tourneys, you should very quickly be able to get a feel of who the fish are, there will likely be a lot of them, you may even know some of the locals who are taking a shot?
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 06:07 AM
(#4)
ouchbadbeat's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 347
always add on straight away if you can

i know it can be tempting to play it as 2 "half stack chances" but really you dont want to be doing this because if you double up you end up on the same stack as people who rebought straight away, and if you lose you start again at a disadvantage


in "double chance" games where you have to bust before being allowed to rebuy, there will be different strategies at play, since everyone is on an equal footing


in your game i would take the full stack from hand 1, and try to smallball my way around with a nice deep stack. also (i dont know if this is a mistake from me) i would be assuming that some people who don't rebuy straight away are either inexperienced or risk averse


my 2 x 2 cents so 4cents
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 06:18 AM
(#5)
666bonez187's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 745
do you live in australia or nz? what is this tourney n where?
it would be dependant on if u have to pay for this 2nd chance card or does every1 get a free 2nd life?
if its free id use str8 away
but if u have to pay for it, i would only use it if someone else at the table does....
i dont think ive played one of these..
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 06:24 AM
(#6)
ouchbadbeat's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 347
btw if anyone likes algebra/is interested in the maths behind this



this is a table representing the options available in the OP*, assuming that if we singlestack and doubleup, we will then addon the second unit immediately

*i put 100k chips instead of 100bb, actual numbers dont matter since principal is the same

the "Value" column shows how many chips we've gained/lost

notice that by rebuying straight away we can gain 2N of value (means we've paid for 2 units but actually have 4 units) - but if we single stack and double, we only gain half as much value, and if we single stack and lose, we need to double up just to get back to breakeven!
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 09:24 AM
(#7)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Thanks guys. Will be adding on straight away I think.

@bonez, it's in Perth.
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 09:29 AM
(#8)
spand42's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,496
OBB the first row on your table only makes sense if most of the other people at your table are also immediately taking the rebuy. Otherwise your "double up" will still only be 2N + 1N. So then you're not gaining any extra value from taking the rebuy straight away, but you're also not giving yourself the chance of not using your rebuy in case you run hot and triple/quadruple up.
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 10:28 AM
(#9)
stix144's Avatar
Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 226
This might not be correct it's just food for thought..

I don't think I would mind too much having the extra bullet in my stack even if I got off to a hot start. There should be enough bloated stacks in the field as a whole, And those extra chips might retain huge value every time we manage to double through someone who had us covered at the time. Since every time that happens the second bullet doubles! again not just the first time.

by the time we get deeper in the game especially if we run through a bad spell somewhere along the way which would then I think reduce the % of our stack that the original single buy in would have represented if we had only took the one..
Then those extra chips from the start plus whatever factor they have increased by could still represent a significant enough % of our entire stack to have a big influence on how we stand. Even when not everyone at our opening table had took it.

Last edited by stix144; Tue Feb 11, 2014 at 10:35 AM..
 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 10:50 AM
(#10)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,832
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
If it were me in this situation, I'm taking it immediately as I want to be able to use every advantage that I can as soon as possible.

The bunch is right too, that if you'd double up, that's where it will come into play the most. Especially if the opp has more than just a starting stack... you'll be able to get more chips, which will help to set you up for a deeper run.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Feb 11, 2014, 10:59 AM
(#11)
ouchbadbeat's Avatar
Since: Mar 2013
Posts: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by spand42 View Post
OBB the first row on your table only makes sense if most of the other people at your table are also immediately taking the rebuy. Otherwise your "double up" will still only be 2N + 1N. So then you're not gaining any extra value from taking the rebuy straight away, but you're also not giving yourself the chance of not using your rebuy in case you run hot and triple/quadruple up.
correct, but we want to always be as well stacked as possible and in the above situation we are not losing any value, its just not there to be taken

in the reverse scenario if we are on 1N and villain is on 2N we lose value if we double up when it could have been for an extra 1N




i think this point has been touched on but the key here is exponential value - for any N, N * 2^x is gonna be smaller than 1/2N * 2^x , and the higher x gets, the more we miss out

take N as 1000 chips, and x as 4. means we double up 4 times
1000 x 2^4 = 16000 (1k -> 2k -> 4k -> 8k -> 16k)

if we are on half N:
500 x 2^4 = 8000

so we lose out on up to an extra 8 initial starting stacks here
ive included "up to" to distinguish that yes, in a best case scenario we double up but sometimes we have villain covered and win less

even if we start on 1unit and double, then rebuy, we lose out on 1 immediate stack but every time we double up/go allin and win, we are winning less than we could have

so i guess the main point is that taking as many possible chips when you can will help you further down the road, you might not win all of your chips, but you want your maximum potential win to be as high as it can be
 

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