Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

10NL 6max - Open utg JJ, raised over called, trapped sqeeze bet size $5 or shove

Old
Default
10NL 6max - Open utg JJ, raised over called, trapped sqeeze bet size $5 or shove - Sat Feb 22, 2014, 02:13 AM
(#1)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
This is another Zoom hand. Thinking my "back squeeze" or 4-bet looks so bad.

I ramped up the bet size from $3.75 - $5 to play to a caller. Then felt trapped into the hands that "should" now beat me and playing out of position post flop.

So shoved into a potential QQ+ or AK. Would you:

1) Flat JJ paying 60c into $2.25 oop
2) Nominal squeeze/4-bet bet size to get a caller
3) After thinking it through then just shove it all in



Last edited by ForrestFive; Sat Feb 22, 2014 at 02:33 AM.. Reason: wrong back squeeze terminology again - 4bet
 
Old
Default
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 06:45 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I think there is a slightly suicidal edge to that action.

I don't see what worse hands can call here, I think QQ/KK/AA and AKo and AKs can call, I doubt TT or anything below does.

I don't think we are wasting JJ by calling. If we are going to 4bet, and play out of position, I don't think we want to make it a small 4bet.
 
Old
Default
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 10:44 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi Forrest,

I think 4-betting all in is about the least desirable choice here. We have opened UTG and and been 3B by UTG+1. Then UTG+2 cold calls the 3B. There's no reason to think they are lite here, and P5 is certainly not folding QQ+ to our action, so I think we are just stacking ourselves off bad needlessly. When raising we want opponents to be able to make calling or raising mistakes. This action prevents a raising mistake altogether, and makes it very difficult for the opponents to make calling mistakes as well.

Really I think the best play by far here imo is to simply call, we have great implied odds to go set mining and can expect decent action when we hit one. 4-betting readless here is basically turning a hand with tangible post flop value into a bluff, vs. an already strong range in V5 and where no better hand will actually fold.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 11:06 PM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Yeah shoving here is lighting money on fire.
 
Old
Default
Sat Feb 22, 2014, 11:47 PM
(#5)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Thanks for the replies,

I agree with most replies when I post in the HA thread, so don't follow up and disagree with what more experienced players say.

Now is good because in this situation I don't want to play this hand post flop. And completely agree with what Dave said perfectly:

"...here is basically turning a hand with tangible post flop value into a bluff,"

OK yes just flat call and play a pair, what 99-JJ into over cards? How many overs 3? in a 3-bet 3 way pot. To me the 3-bet over call is a deeper stack checking position. Set mining yes but no, can we make a value bet oop and get paid.


If we miss, considering pre-flop action, I can't turn my hand into a bluff on the flop, turn and certainly not on the river. I'm not experienced enough to do that, even with A8s vs A4s I check behind turn when I should bet.

So here in this situation I felt my play was the best option.
 
Old
Default
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:17 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestFive View Post
OK yes just flat call and play a pair, what 99-JJ into over cards?
Check/fold? It's ok, you don't have to win every single pot you vpip.

Quote:
Set mining yes but no, can we make a value bet oop and get paid.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but I think we have a reasonable expectation of it here. V5 should often have a strong range 3-betting an UTG open from UTG+1. And V6 can sometimes be flatting QQ+ as a trap himself, or flatting hands like 88 where we have a chance to set over set him, so his presence is not irrelevant in the equation too imo.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com