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25NL ZOOM 6max. OOP with QQ on 4bet K high flop.

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25NL ZOOM 6max. OOP with QQ on 4bet K high flop. - Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:24 AM
(#1)
MaTaKazer's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 19
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3B - 18%



Against his high 3bet, I 4B for value here and gain the initiative. Find it hard to play QQ OOP without initiative, only to fold to K/A high flop. Was this a valid reason? What do we do if he 5B shove here?


As played, flop was kinda aweful... Am behind AK/JJ now. Intent to x/f as I feel like not much worse would call a bet here. Should I have took the line of bet/f instead to protect my hand a little? How much would an optimal bet size be?

To my surprise, he lead out small here, so I call to re-evaluate OTT. He bets small again... what do we do?

Last edited by MaTaKazer; Sun Feb 23, 2014 at 03:39 AM..
 
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Sun Feb 23, 2014, 05:31 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
For 100bb, I'm ok with getting QQ in pre, though given he is raising us when we raised UTG it is far from fist pump territory in my eyes.

When he just calls our 4bet, it makes his hand look more like AK/QQ/JJ than anything else to me, though I wouldn't discount TT either.

I think I prefer to continue on this flop myself rather than check/call. When we 4bet pre we are representing a big hand. This flop hits some of those hands. His 3bet % is 18 but what is his Fold to 4bet? Does he only continue with premiums?
 
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Sun Feb 23, 2014, 08:36 AM
(#3)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
4betting whilst in UTG with QQ is a leak, especially in zoom. You also didn't include how many hands you had on him. That's very important if you want to justify 4betting QQ for value here.

I also think it's fine to give up OTF. If he does 3b/call the range you described, we are pretty much drawing dead or chopping. We are at the absolute bottom of our range given we 4b pre (we'll have AA and KK enough here that we can give up with QQ combos).
 
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Sun Feb 23, 2014, 08:51 AM
(#4)
MaTaKazer's Avatar
Since: Jan 2014
Posts: 19
Care to explain why 4Betting QQ is a leak? Wouldn't it be worst if we only 4B AK/KK+?

Sample hand size on villain was small though.
 
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Sun Feb 23, 2014, 09:04 AM
(#5)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTaKazer View Post
Care to explain why 4Betting QQ is a leak? Wouldn't it be worst if we only 4B AK/KK+?

Sample hand size on villain was small though.
If 3betting QQ for value is marginal vs a utg open, think about how effective 4betting QQ will be vs that 3b.
 
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Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:00 PM
(#6)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I agree with birdayy. Because we are UTG our range looks strong and for someone to 3bet us they won't expect us to fold too often for them to 3bet us light. Also hands like JJ and AK against a tight UTG open will fall in the medium hand strength category and are not premium holdings because of position. Think about what a 3bet does to our UTG 13% opening range when we will see a flop OOP. We will fold so many hands and only continue with the top of our range. By 4betting QQ we also manipulate our oppponents 3bet range. Because they won't stack off with JJ/TT we are best against AK which is a flip. So by not 4betting we get to keep hands that we beat in. It's always nice to cooler our opponent but it sucks when they cooler us and I think when the money goes in here we will see AA/KK more often than not just because we are open raising from UTG. As played, we now lose to AK and JJ both hands that we were targeting preflop so I think we should be folding here.

My general strategy is to actually fold JJ when I open UTG and get 3bet, call with QQ and sometimes AKs and 4bet AA/KK that way I get to cooler my opponents when the money goes in with their AK and QQ
 

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