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10NL ZOOM - ATs Turn Play

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10NL ZOOM - ATs Turn Play - Mon Feb 24, 2014, 01:06 PM
(#1)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Villain (100): 21/16/4.0
TOT: 3bet 5.1 on 39 samples
CO: 14.3 on 7 samples
BTN: 0 on on 8 samples
SB: 0 on 9 samples
BB: 8.3 on 12 samples

As played, OTF I felt like I had to peel another card which could give me straight and BDNF draws. OTT I pick up a TON of equity.

OTT: Raise (as played), shove or cold call?


Last edited by dirt eh; Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 02:33 PM..
 
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Mon Feb 24, 2014, 02:07 PM
(#2)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Please comment on the above topic before watching the results

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Mon Feb 24, 2014, 02:19 PM
(#3)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Fold preflop, villain is pretty tight, i think you are not ahead of villains SB 3 bet range, although he might be thinking you are stealing but anyways.
As played, once he bets second time on turn, i dont think he is folding much there unless you shove, so meh, just fold flop.
Oh wait this is zoom so villain is not so tight. Then i dont know, we can call 3 bet and still fold flop.

Last edited by CrazYJohnnie; Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 02:21 PM..
 
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Mon Feb 24, 2014, 02:39 PM
(#4)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
Fold preflop, villain is pretty tight, i think you are not ahead of villains SB 3 bet range.
3bet was from BB. I've edited the post to give you 3bet from position.

NOTE: I DIDN'T USE 3bet by position in my preflop decision. I didn't even use his TOT 3B preflop. I auto defended with ATs.

I used TOT 3bet stat OTT decision once he fired 2 bullets, because I only had 6 cbet (33%)/ 2 tbet (%100) samples. I think folding ATs preflop vs. a 3bet would be -EV. Just my opinion.
 
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Mon Feb 24, 2014, 06:18 PM
(#5)
CrazYJohnnie's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 641
Ok BB so yes i was maybe thinking bout other things whatever. Well i can certainly understand why you think AT pre fold is -EV but on the other hand its not because:
1) vs tight villains your at best flipping, if we insert his default preflop opening range 16 into equity calculator, vs AT it gave me 50/50. Although, we can obv assume that villains will bluff 3bet you and this was the case, because obviously no one is raising 5 high for value. And i would think his 3bet value range is tight there.
2) this is the same with AK like we know that we dont flop anything 2/3 of time so every time you call 3 bet and miss you are most likely to fold, sometimes you can float and take it away but meh. Even if we win pot half time, imagine you call 3 bet 20 times and fold flop to further aggression. More than half stacked now i wouldnt mind 4 betting here tho, with AKs for sure, dont know bout AT

Im glad it worked out this time but obv OTF u have now pair, no draw so unless you wanted to float anyway, i still fold.

Last edited by CrazYJohnnie; Mon Feb 24, 2014 at 06:23 PM..
 
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Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:06 PM
(#6)
dirt eh's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazYJohnnie View Post
now i wouldnt mind 4 betting here tho, with AKs for sure, dont know bout AT
Reviewing the hand, I semi agree with you, however I would CC with AKs and 4b bluff ATs. I think my call was too weak PF and this is probably where the hole hand gets tricky. Will be interesting what the pros have to say.

Thanks for the input.
 
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Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:20 PM
(#7)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Preflop is absolutely fine. Folding is way too weak and 4betting would overplay our hand.

Being in position i'd rather call turn. I don't really like raising because we don't have much fold equity.

That and stacks will be shovable on the river if he checks to you and we get there.

If we were 200bb+ deep then there is a case for raising turn as he can't call a wide range vs a river bet.

If you do decide to raise turn, i prefer shoving. As is stacks are awkward (only a half PSB otr), so to get max fold equity i'd rather just shove it in.
 
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Tue Feb 25, 2014, 05:42 AM
(#8)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
No reason to raise turn I think. Clearly raising turn is a semi-bluff. But what better hands do we expect to fold here besides AK? not so much so with little to no fold equity we do better by calling. I'm not sure about the flop float, but I don't think its horrible if we think our opponent will check alot of turns and we can bet and take it down.
 

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